Interesting findings on the internet

[EC8010]

Perhaps, but I'm not in the art market. Perhaps I should look for a kit and make my own art.

[tggzzz]

Perhaps, but I'm not in the art market. Perhaps I should look for a kit and make my own art.

Not a bad rule of thumb is that if you think you could do something yourself, then it isn't art.

Yes, I could copy a Mondrian, but I couldn't have created it.

[Zenith]

Perhaps, but I'm not in the art market. Perhaps I should look for a kit and make my own art.

Not a bad rule of thumb is that if you think you could do something yourself, then it isn't art.

Yes, I could copy a Mondrian, but I couldn't have created it.

Mondrian managed to sell a concept. Once you'd got the idea I don't see how "in the style of" Modrian could be told apart from an original, apart from his records and records of his sales.

There have been brilliant art forgers whose works were indistinguishable from original works by famous artists, and there was more to it than faking a Mondrian. Han van Meegeren famously sold Herman Goering an original Vermeer, which he'd painted himself. After the war van Meegeren was put on trial for dealing with Goering on the sale of a national treasure. He had quite a job to convince the court that the painting was a fake and he'd painted it. He went further than nipping down to the local art supplies shop. He was using the same pigments, methods and materials that Vermeer would have used.

How is a Vermeer which experts can't distinguish from Vermeers of known provenence, less valid than acknowledged Vermeers? Possibly unknown original works by great artists do turn up once in a while.

Tom Keating was a prolific British art forger.

A lot of paintings by artists such as Raphael came out of his studio, but most of the work was done by his apprentices. The great man would have laid down an outline of the work and at the end added a few finishing touches.

Then there's the tale of Picasso receiving a letter from French art students, who said they wanted to go to an exhibition of his works, but they were beat for bread, so could he bung them the Francs. He wrote on the back of their letter, "Sell this", signed it "Picasso" as he signed his paintings, and sent it back to them.

[tggzzz]

All successful artists sell a concept. Consider Tracy Emin's bed and Damian Hurst's pickles.

Hurst used to helicopter clients to my gliding club, since it was near his factory in Stroud. Never saw him, but did bump into the Top Gear mob.

[EC8010]

Tom Keating was a prolific British art forger.

And don't forget Shaun Greenhalgh aka "The Bolton Forger"; I have a copy of his book. He featured in a television series, but was let down by a gushing presenter. The success of forgers says a lot about the art trade and people with too much money.

My mother's hobby was painting. Sadly, although technically competent, her work had zero originality/interest. She should have turned to forgery; had she done so, I would be seriously proud.

[Zenith]

All successful artists sell a concept. Consider Tracy Emin's bed and Damian Hurst's pickles.

Hurst used to helicopter clients to my gliding club, since it was near his factory in Stroud. Never saw him, but did bump into the Top Gear mob.

Tracy Emin was a product of a Saatchi & Saatchi marketing campaign. I remember discussing this with several people well known in textile design, and one of them said, "God knows why Tracy Emin's bed is supposed to be more interesting than my bed or your bed. She can't bloody draw." I said, "I sense the ghost of Marcel Duchamp is hovering around this conversation and is trying hard not to piss itself. He spent about three years of his life producing art, and the rest playing chess"'. I believe Damian Hurst was from the same stable. I consider it about the same as manufactured pop groups; Boney M, The Monkees, and others.

The history of art is full of outrageous nonsense. Man Ray's "The Gift"; a flat iron with about 16 felt clouts glued to the bottom. I suppose the idea is intriguing. Salvador Dali was commissioned to create a shop window display for a New York department store. His effort was considered a lewd affront to public decency, but it was artistic. A crowd gathered and cops were called in to stop them from seeing it. It had the desired intention of making the store's name known.

[Zenith]

My mother's hobby was painting. Sadly, although technically competent, her work had zero originality/interest. She should have turned to forgery; had she done so, I would be seriously proud.

I have two or three paintings by friend's mothers who were artists in their spare time. They are certainly good enough to put on the wall.

I think high level forgery involves quite extraordinary basic talent, mastery of technique and researching techniques and materials used in the past, someone pissed off that their actual work doesn't sell for much, and a criminal streak.

If you want a Da Vinci, a Vermeer, a Rembrandt, I have standard rates. If you want a Van Eyck, that will cost you more because of all those bloody varnish layers. Hieronymous Bosch will also cost more, because after doing one of those, I need a fortnight on the Costa del Sol to recover. They're just weird shit.

[tggzzz]

All successful artists sell a concept. Consider Tracy Emin's bed and Damian Hurst's pickles.

Hurst used to helicopter clients to my gliding club, since it was near his factory in Stroud. Never saw him, but did bump into the Top Gear mob.

Tracy Emin was a product of a Saatchi & Saatchi marketing campaign. I remember discussing this with several people well known in textile design, and one of them said, "God knows why Tracy Emin's bed is supposed to be more interesting than my bed or your bed. She can't bloody draw." I said, "I sense the ghost of Marcel Duchamp is hovering around this conversation and is trying hard not to piss itself. He spent about three years of his life producing art, and the rest playing chess"'. I believe Damian Hurst was from the same stable. I consider it about the same as manufactured pop groups; Boney M, The Monkees, and others.

Didn't know that, but it doesn't surprise me. S&S were advertising men who wanted to be the centre of the conversation, so it isn't surprising if they designed/engineered the conversation.

The bed and shark and urinal were "justified" by the concept of it being A Good Thing if the audience is Challenged to Think About What Art Is. Given the time and place, that just about works for the urinal. The others - not so much.

The Monkees were transparent bubblegum pop, and made a pleasant enough ignorable background muzak. With the emphasis on ignorable.

The history of art is full of outrageous nonsense. Man Ray's "The Gift"; a flat iron with about 16 felt clouts glued to the bottom. I suppose the idea is intriguing. Salvador Dali was commissioned to create a shop window display for a New York department store. His effort was considered a lewd affront to public decency, but it was artistic. A crowd gathered and cops were called in to stop them from seeing it. It had the desired intention of making the store's name known.

The history of everything is full of outrageous nonsense - a variant of Sturgeon's law. The outrage is that some things persisted for more than a week, and that people took them seriously thereafter.

Mind you, I do half admire Hurst for the way he managed to extract money from gullible idiots.

[EC8010]

And now I know Sturgeon's law. And believe it. Especially about science fiction, of which I have always read a lot. Mind you, the only place I have encountered bug-eyed monsters is in HGTTG, On the topic of science fiction, in the 70s I read a book where the use of heat pumps had been outlawed but people still used them, forcing them to wade through nitrogen slush if they ventured outside. I'd be very keen to read that again if anyone recognises it from my wonderfully clear description.

[nixiefreqq]

I am something of a Philistine in this respect. I have a few bits of TE that use Nixie tubes, but I don't think they are cool and I can't see the fascination with building Nixie tube clocks.

"something of a Philistine"....REALLY?

for saying something like that you need to pack your bags and go back to Philistia!

[EC8010]

Nixies look lovely because they hark back to an era when electronics was supposed to conform to human expectations (properly shaped numbers), rather than the other way around.

[tggzzz]

Nixies look lovely because they hark back to an era when electronics was supposed to conform to human expectations (properly shaped numbers), rather than the other way around.

Interesting observation.

I rather like the bulb -> mask -> ground glass screen displays. I have some similar to those in the illustration below, but haven't made anything with them yet.

[BU508A]

Display of my Rohde & Schwarz UGZ:

[Zenith]

I am something of a Philistine in this respect. I have a few bits of TE that use Nixie tubes, but I don't think they are cool and I can't see the fascination with building Nixie tube clocks.

"something of a Philistine"....REALLY?

for saying something like that you need to pack your bags and go back to Philistia!

Don't be mean. Look on the bright side. I'm one less competing for the dwindling stock of Nixie tubes, and I don't buy vintage gear with Nixies to break it up to sell the tubes on fleabay or build silly clocks.

[nixiefreqq]

I am something of a Philistine in this respect. I have a few bits of TE that use Nixie tubes, but I don't think they are cool and I can't see the fascination with building Nixie tube clocks.

"something of a Philistine"....REALLY?

for saying something like that you need to pack your bags and go back to Philistia!

Don't be mean. Look on the bright side. I'm one less competing for the dwindling stock of Nixie tubes, and I don't buy vintage gear with Nixies to break it up to sell the tubes on fleabay or build silly clocks.

honestly.......I have not rescued any nixie gear in 2 or 3 years. it seems pointless because at 71 some house clean out ape will no doubt soon be tossing the entire lot into a dumpster bound for the recycle center up the road. maybe realizing this has made me a little grumpy. but saying they are not cool......that's like trash talking my mum.....or claiming new york is better than philly.........or worse yet - declaring that picard is better than kirk.

[tggzzz]

...some house clean out ape will no doubt soon be tossing the entire lot into a dumpster bound for the recycle center up the road. maybe realizing this has made me a little grumpy. ....

Yeah Personally I fancy having one example of each type of display.

If you have a trustworthy executor, you could leave them notes on suggested ways of the value and how to realise some of it.

Realistically, they are unlikely to use fleabay, but a decent local-ish auction house might be practical.

"Decent" => can spell Tektronix, accepts your description and value[1], categorises them as "scientific instruments" rather than "radio" or "tool" or nothing at all, and is prepared to photograph it when powered up. Good luck finding all 4, but aim for 3 of them, and accept 2.

[1] probate valuation is near zero

[Cubdriver]

Display of my Rohde & Schwarz UGZ:

THOSE I've never seen in person. The closest I've come is the stacked lucite plate displays that I believe somewhat predated nixies, then were their contemporaries for a while used by companies like Non-Linear Systems and Electro Instruments. Those are beautiful displays - I'll have to be on the lookout though I doubt I'll find any in the U. S.





-Pat

[Zenith]

honestly.......I have not rescued any nixie gear in 2 or 3 years. it seems pointless because at 71 some house clean out ape will no doubt soon be tossing the entire lot into a dumpster bound for the recycle center up the road.

Depressing but life insurance company life tables end at 110. I have every confidence you have another 30 good years in you.

See
viewtopic.php?t=483
For a discussion of disposing of the treasured goods of the dearly departed. There's a hazy distinction to be drawn between obvious rubbish and junk. Then there are things (especially portable things) of clear and realiseable value, such as cash, gold coins, bank deposits, deeds, proper antiques and so on. i found it a sordid discussion, but I've been there. Lived experience as they say.

maybe realizing this has made me a little grumpy. but saying they are not cool......that's like trash talking my mum.....or claiming new york is better than philly.........or worse yet - declaring that picard is better than kirk.

I don't find them cool, and if anything rather a lurking nuisance. Nonetheless, I don't see it as a matter which demands the glove should be thrown down, picked up in acceptance, seconds chosen, weapons chosen and then the matter decided on the field of honour at dawn.

I'm quite happy to go along with me not having much time for Nixiie tubes and you taking a different view.

[EC8010]

"Decent" = can spell Tektronix, accepts your description and value[1], categorises them as "scientific instruments" rather than "radio" or "tool" or nothing at all, and is prepared to photograph it when powered up. Good luck finding all 4, but aim for 3 of them, and accept 2.

[1] probate valuation is near zero

I am amazed by how often Tektronix is misspelled. Realistically, almost all of what we individually value is unappreciated by anyone else. SWMBO has just reiterated her query of "Why?" when I explained my pleasure that the Time Electronics 2004 that arrived this morning will shortly be within its original specification.

By the way, BU508, your pictures are "Content not viewable in your region."

[tggzzz]

I am amazed by how often Tektronix is misspelled.

Aglient is another Probably a sound reason for changing to Keysight

There are sites which will give you a list of likely misspellings, for plugging into fleabay searches in the hope you find things which others miss.

[AVGresponding]

I am amazed by how often Tektronix is misspelled.

Aglient is another Probably a sound reason for changing to Keysight

There are sites which will give you a list of likely misspellings, for plugging into fleabay searches in the hope you find things which others miss.

See how easy it is to get it wrong? It's "Keyshite"

[tggzzz]

I am amazed by how often Tektronix is misspelled.

Aglient is another Probably a sound reason for changing to Keysight

There are sites which will give you a list of likely misspellings, for plugging into fleabay searches in the hope you find things which others miss.

See how easy it is to get it wrong? It's "Keyshite"

Ah yes. Fanratti. Macaroni. And when I was being interviewed, I was very careful not to say HeaP.

[EC8010]

See how easy it is to get it wrong? It's "Keyshite"

Eight years ago, I would have disagreed with you.

[Zenith]

See how easy it is to get it wrong? It's "Keyshite"

Usually the PR marvels who come up with these made up names, are on the lookout for anything that can be adapted to show the brand in a ridiculous light. It doesn't always work. Wang was a minicomputer maker in the 1980s. Their support operation was called Wang Care.

When Agilent split from HP apparently they paid millions for someone to dream up the name, which I'd guess was a combination of agile and vigilant. I thought they should have called it Packard-Hewlett. Bill and Dave tossed a coin to decide which name came first when they started the company.

Keysight never struck me as a particularly compelling name.

[Zenith]

See how easy it is to get it wrong? It's "Keyshite"

Eight years ago, I would have disagreed with you.

I have a fair amount of HP branded TE, but nothing by Agilent or Keysight. I've no experience of their products. A year or so back there was a thread at The Other Place, where people were very pissed off with Keysight. The essence of it was that they were no longer interested in dealing with individual customers, and made it known, and the level of support they gave had dropped enormously.