Interesting findings on the internet

[EC8010]

Decades ago, I commuted into London, arriving at Waterloo, and passing a big sign saying Wang on the way. Being a yoof, I sniggered.

I can confirm from personal experience all the observations made at the other place about Keysight. Mind you, around 2000, I had to get exceedingly stroppy with Tektronix when they refused to repair our five-year-old 2465B oscilloscope and instead offered a discount on a TDS3034. I asked if they wanted me to tell the students that, "Once upon a time, Tek made wonderful test gear, but now they don't even support it properly"? They decided that they could repair the 'scope. I haven't had any grief with them since and they've been much better than HPAK.

[Cubdriver]

I have a fair amount of HP branded TE, but nothing by Agilent or Keysight. I've no experience of their products. A year or so back there was a thread at The Other Place, where people were very pissed off with Keysight. The essence of it was that they were no longer interested in dealing with individual customers, and made it known, and the level of support they gave had dropped enormously.

I have a few Agilent branded instruments, though all but one are early Agilent meaning rebranded HP designed stuff. The only AGILENT Agilent thing is a U1272A DMM bought from their (or Keysight's; it's been too long) eBuy page about ten years ago. I think refusing to support hobbyists/small buyers is a very short sighted business decision as those people sometimes have or eventually get jobs at big companies with large TE budgets. Piss them off and they may ultimately return the favor. I've little doubt that both Bill and Dave are likely spinning in their graves at what's become of their company.

-Pat

[AVGresponding]

See how easy it is to get it wrong? It's "Keyshite"

Eight years ago, I would have disagreed with you.

I have a fair amount of HP branded TE, but nothing by Agilent or Keysight. I've no experience of their products. A year or so back there was a thread at The Other Place, where people were very pissed off with Keysight. The essence of it was that they were no longer interested in dealing with individual customers, and made it known, and the level of support they gave had dropped enormously.

That's essentially the reason for my ire. More recently, Rude & Shartz have followed suit.

[tggzzz]

I notice we are quarter of the way to not being able to read this thread.

Can I suggest we should start an Interesting findings on the internet 2 thread.

[EC8010]

I think refusing to support hobbyists/small buyers is a very short sighted business decision as those people sometimes have or eventually get jobs at big companies with large TE budgets. Piss them off and they may ultimately return the favor. I've little doubt that both Bill and Dave are likely spinning in their graves at what's become of their company.

Exactly. What's the thing interviewers most want to hear at a job interview? That the applicant does electronics as a hobby. The employees who end up directing technical effort at companies are the ones who do electronics as a hobby.

Whether they know it or not, test equipment manufacturers rely on brand allegiance. At work, we had HPAK DMMs, Keithley electrometers, and Tek oscilloscopes. At one point, I mooted the possibility of a R&S oscilloscope, but nobody liked the idea. At another point, an HPAK oscilloscope was mooted, but narrowly voted down. Were I still there, I would probably suggest Keithley DMMs. I had a very good relationship with Tek and in return for providing them with technical feedback, could routinely get 30% (or more) discount on their list prices. Up until then, it was just left to our purchasing people who didn't bother to haggle at all.

I like the sound of Rude & Shortz better.

[Zenith]

I have a fair amount of HP branded TE, but nothing by Agilent or Keysight. I've no experience of their products. A year or so back there was a thread at The Other Place, where people were very pissed off with Keysight. The essence of it was that they were no longer interested in dealing with individual customers, and made it known, and the level of support they gave had dropped enormously.

I have a few Agilent branded instruments, though all but one are early Agilent meaning rebranded HP designed stuff. The only AGILENT Agilent thing is a U1272A DMM bought from their (or Keysight's; it's been too long) eBuy page about ten years ago. I think refusing to support hobbyists/small buyers is a very short sighted business decision as those people sometimes have or eventually get jobs at big companies with large TE budgets. Piss them off and they may ultimately return the favor. I've little doubt that both Bill and Dave are likely spinning in their graves at what's become of their company.

-Pat

Bill & Dave's HP was selling high priced, high margin instruments, to companies and the military,to be used by professionals. When you look at the original price and adjust for inflation, the cost is breathtaking. it's hard to imagine private individuals buying new anything they made. Excellent support was part of it. The second hand price was still beyond most amateurs.

The world has changed. Everything is much more commoditised. Looking at Keysight basic AWGs, they cost three times the Siglent or Rigol equivalent, but I'd guess margins are low for Keysight. With names like EDUxxxx I assume they are aimed at universities and so there's a strategic intention. Providing proper support is expensive. I suppose someone has run a spreadsheet over this policy and concluded that it was to Keysight's advantage. As you say, it is short sighted. It leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

[tggzzz]

Adjusting for inflation is notoriously difficult. For a start consider vs prices, wages, then consider vs spare cash.

I like to point out that in the late 70s a Tek 465 cost about my annual salary, and an HP spectrum analyser about the same as a house.

A Motorola 6800 cost a week's wages when I was vacation student - money very well spent

[Zenith]

Whichever way you cut it, anything HP, a scope, sig gen, SA etc, cost a lot of money.

This is an interesting find on the internet.

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/index.htm

They have all editions of Wireless World scanned.

https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Wirel ... gazine.htm

In the mid 70s few amateurs had scopes. Amateur electronics was a popular hobby.

In 1975 Scopex were offering a 10MHz dual trace scope for £118 (ex VAT). Affordable, but still quite a lot of money. £6,000 p.a. would have been a reasonable job back then.

A Telequipment D61, also a 10MHz scope, was £138.

I've seen both at swapmeets occasionally. They are very crude.

[tggzzz]

Just so.

My scope comparison was a Tek465 (I.e. good engineer-level scope for TTL, not a 10MHz technician-level scope for TV) in 1978, when my first salary was £3500.

[nixiefreqq]

honestly.......I have not rescued any nixie gear in 2 or 3 years. it seems pointless because at 71 some house clean out ape will no doubt soon be tossing the entire lot into a dumpster bound for the recycle center up the road.

Depressing but life insurance company life tables end at 110. I have every confidence you have another 30 good years in you.

See
viewtopic.php?t=483
For a discussion of disposing of the treasured goods of the dearly departed. There's a hazy distinction to be drawn between obvious rubbish and junk. Then there are things (especially portable things) of clear and realiseable value, such as cash, gold coins, bank deposits, deeds, proper antiques and so on. i found it a sordid discussion, but I've been there. Lived experience as they say.

maybe realizing this has made me a little grumpy. but saying they are not cool......that's like trash talking my mum.....or claiming new york is better than philly.........or worse yet - declaring that picard is better than kirk.

I don't find them cool, and if anything rather a lurking nuisance. Nonetheless, I don't see it as a matter which demands the glove should be thrown down, picked up in acceptance, seconds chosen, weapons chosen and then the matter decided on the field of honour at dawn.

I'm quite happy to go along with me not having much time for Nixiie tubes and you taking a different view.

a 350 lb former college center lineman and naval gunnery officer once threatened to kick my ass for saying we could "agree to disagree" about a technology preference. if he were still alive big ed would still be saying that we need to stop playing with ethernet switches because ISDN is all we will ever need to implement networks.

oh....I really like "lurking nuisance". do you give me leave to reuse that one?

[Zenith]

a 350 lb former college center lineman and naval gunnery officer once threatened to kick my ass for saying we could "agree to disagree" about a technology preference. if he were still alive big ed would still be saying that we need to stop playing with ethernet switches because ISDN is all we will ever need to implement networks.

People who have been in the armed services can take you by surprise. I knew someone who left home at 16. He and his step mother hated each other from the off. He joined the merchant navy and after it, got in with a strange, very alternative gal. They started a vegetarian restaurant and they bought a small house on the proceeds. I went there and fixed the wiring, which I thought had been modified by someone who had only the haziest idea of what they were doing, or had been seriously smoking it up. You turned on the light in the living room and nothing happened. Depending on the state of the switch in the kitchen several things could happen. The two way switch for the light for the cupboard under the stairs played an interesting part. Anyway, I fixed it and for Sunday lunch we had nut cutlets. They said they liked them but never offered them in the restaurant, because some people thought that was all vegetarians ate.

Anyway, a rule of their place was that since they'd paid a lot of money for the carpets, there were no shoes to be worn in the house. I didn't mind.

Since they were married, had a successful business, had a house and were on the way to having a child, he thought a normalisation with his family was appropriate.

His father and stepmother turned up and when asked to remove their shoes, they snorted and buggered off swearing.

His brother, who was a regimental sergeant major, just took his shoes off and went along with things.

oh....I really like "lurking nuisance". do you give me leave to reuse that one?

Feel free. It's hardly something that can be copyrighted.

[EC8010]

It's strange how house rules can cause problems. My mother turned out to have a house rule that she wasn't to be contradicted in her house. She stated this and we promptly left. I thought most people didn't like visitors to wear shoes in their house; I would certainly never object to a request to remove shoes. I'd be a bit surprised if they said they'd spent a lot of money on seating and requested removal of trousers. Once upon a time, visitors expected to be allowed to smoke in a house; these days, they expect to be told to go outside.

The site that has WW also has a bunch of other interesting stuff. Much of which is still in copyright.

[EC8010]

But what in blue blazes is she wearing in this video?

A Chinese goth; you may need to visit a few less traditional pubs.

[EC8010]

Three or four months ago, I put up another twenty three feet of book shelves, making about a hundred and twenty feet for my books and journals (probably 75% is technical stuff). The intention was that it should be a lifetime supply of bookshelf. I don't quite understand how it has happened, but the new shelves are full. SWMBO has bookcases dotted around the house, but no technical books, so probably not so many. Book shelves are what you need when you start tripping over books and the window sills are full, so the need for shelves or bookcases follows the number of books, but here's something dismal. Note that the quality or topic of the books is not mentioned; they just want some books. I wonder if they will read any...

[tggzzz]

There are many places which sell "books by the yard", e.g. https://curatedbooks.co.uk/books-by-the-metre/

Some places might just want them for pulp value; I suspect that happens to many books given to charity shops (especially Dan Brown!)

And of course others rip them apart and scan them for LLM fodder.

Long ago I heard of a FooF who had stopped buying books, on the principle that his stack of unread books was more than he could read in his remaining lifetime. I have some sympathy for that.

[synx508]

Everyone here has probably found this already but I thought I'd link to it. Cellar full of electronics… https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/237139906659

[tggzzz]

Everyone here has probably found this already but I thought I'd link to it. Cellar full of electronics… https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/237139906659

I hadn't.

Given the lack of light and appalling photos, it is probably a dank cellar and I doubt they will sell much.

[EC8010]

Nor me. The defining thing about British cellars is the damp. They're probably hoping not to have to pay someone to take it away. Those are remarkably bad photos.

[Zenith]

Everyone here has probably found this already but I thought I'd link to it. Cellar full of electronics… https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/237139906659

It's a long way to Leeds. I'm not impressed that they couldn't be bothered to take halfway decent photos or produce a list, so who knows what's there and what state it's in? From the little I can make out from the pictures, there's nothing on my shopping list. As others have said, a cellar in the UK is likely to be damp and electronics don't like long term exposure to damp, so there's a good chance it's all in a sad state.

Anyway, the haul of half a dozen items from the SK sale near Southhampton (Croudhill?) finally convinced me that I have enough junk to be going on with.

So, no thanks.

[synx508]

Well, I'm surprised that you've all passed over the chance to get a Datron 1030A before it was called that! Advance DRM 6 in picture 14-ish!

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp ... er=5181783

Or the more boring Datron 1041M in another picture. I rather liked the Simpson 464 and the display part of an HP spectrum analyser, possibly 8566/8.

But yeah, Leeds isn't appealing…

[Zenith]

But yeah, Leeds isn't appealing…

Are you likely to make the trip from Berkshire to Leeds and back for that lot? Even if you bought it all for £1?

[tggzzz]

Well, I'm surprised that you've all passed over the chance to get a Datron 1030A before it was called that! Advance DRM 6 in picture 14-ish!

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp ... er=5181783

Or the more boring Datron 1041M in another picture. I rather liked the Simpson 464 and the display part of an HP spectrum analyser, possibly 8566/8.

But yeah, Leeds isn't appealing…

Not Panaplex. Only 3.5 digits. Not interested.

Picture added viewtopic.php?t=503

[tggzzz]

But yeah, Leeds isn't appealing…

Are you likely to make the trip from Berkshire to Leeds and back for that lot? Even if you bought it all for £1?

I think it would be several trips. Wearing a face mask to avoid inhaling mould/spores/droppings.

[synx508]

But yeah, Leeds isn't appealing…

Are you likely to make the trip from Berkshire to Leeds and back for that lot? Even if you bought it all for £1?

No, not a chance.