New Car

[Specmaster]

Soon I hope to be able to collect my new replacement car, hopefully I'll have my settlement for the old one by then, details to follow soon but for now I'll just say that it's another luxury car with a 2.0 L diesel engine, automatic and has a theoretical range of some 968 miles on a tankful, that's enough to go from home to Edinburgh and back with approx 200 miles left in the tank. As Chris would say, it runs on a gnat's fart and its ULEZ compliant.

[mnementh]

mnem
"weeth seex joo gett egg loll."

[Specmaster]

First pic of the new car, yes it's the same colour as the last one, but it's 3 years younger, has more "toys" than the old one, but I'm not sure if it has the TV tuner or not, need to play with it some more to get my head around the various menus on the set-up screens. I think it is fitted, but it's selected differently to the old system. Chomping on the bit to go and collect it, but it is currently awaiting a new headlight unit to be shipped over from the factory as part of the DRL has stopped working and there are one or two areas that need further attention before it's ready.

7c7cebe88f224e1ba37aafb6279bac12.jpg

[tggzzz]

First pic of the new car, yes it's the same colour as the last one, but it's 3 years younger, has more "toys" than the old one, but I'm not sure if it has the TV tuner or not, need to play with it some more to get my head around the various menus on the set-up screens.

So, designed by the same software weenies that are let loose on modern low-end scopes.

I think it is fitted, but it's selected differently to the old system. Chomping on the bit to go and collect it, but it is currently awaiting a new headlight unit to be shipped over from the factory as part of the DRL has stopped working and there are one or two areas that need further attention before it's ready.

I see a lot of modern cars with failed parking/side lights. (I refuse to use the term "daylight running light" because two of those three words are incorrect in this context)

[Specmaster]

First pic of the new car, yes it's the same colour as the last one, but it's 3 years younger, has more "toys" than the old one, but I'm not sure if it has the TV tuner or not, need to play with it some more to get my head around the various menus on the set-up screens.

So, designed by the same software weenies that are let loose on modern low-end scopes.

I think it is fitted, but it's selected differently to the old system. Chomping on the bit to go and collect it, but it is currently awaiting a new headlight unit to be shipped over from the factory as part of the DRL has stopped working and there are one or two areas that need further attention before it's ready.

I see a lot of modern cars with failed parking/side lights. (I refuse to use the term "daylight running light" because two of those three words are incorrect in this context)

Yeah, I know, I remember when Volvo started it all off years, I thought the whole concept was nuts but now I understand the contribution they make to safety, you can spot a car with them on, much sooner than you can a car without them. I programmed mine to only come on if the engine was running and the handbrake is off, makes so much more sense to me that they are only ON when the car is being driven.

[tggzzz]

First pic of the new car, yes it's the same colour as the last one, but it's 3 years younger, has more "toys" than the old one, but I'm not sure if it has the TV tuner or not, need to play with it some more to get my head around the various menus on the set-up screens.

So, designed by the same software weenies that are let loose on modern low-end scopes.

I think it is fitted, but it's selected differently to the old system. Chomping on the bit to go and collect it, but it is currently awaiting a new headlight unit to be shipped over from the factory as part of the DRL has stopped working and there are one or two areas that need further attention before it's ready.

I see a lot of modern cars with failed parking/side lights. (I refuse to use the term "daylight running light" because two of those three words are incorrect in this context)

Yeah, I know, I remember when Volvo started it all off years, I thought the whole concept was nuts but now I understand the contribution they make to safety, you can spot a car with them on, much sooner than you can a car without them. I programmed mine to only come on if the engine was running and the handbrake is off, makes so much more sense to me that they are only ON when the car is being driven.

I don't disagree, especially with tarmac-coloured cars.

My objection is to the terminology. It took me too long to figure out what people were referring when discussing a daylight running light.

[mnementh]

That's because the people who use that term don't know that DRL means "Daytime Running Lights"... you're right, the other way is mentally defective.

mnem
2 wheels or 4, always-on headlights save lives.

[tggzzz]

That's because the people who use that term don't know that DRL means "Daytime Running Lights"... you're right, the other way is mentally defective.

So they are off at night? Or does the name change to NRL?

[Specmaster]

That's because the people who use that term don't know that DRL means "Daytime Running Lights"... you're right, the other way is mentally defective.

So they are off at night? Or does the name change to NRL?

No, at night, they just become your regular sidelights.

Talking about DRL's, the quirkiest DRL's must on the Citroën C6, which has some at the rear as well as this video explains (16:00 where he mentions them), only the French would be that peculiar, surely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7numh_g8DyI

[tggzzz]

That's because the people who use that term don't know that DRL means "Daytime Running Lights"... you're right, the other way is mentally defective.

So they are off at night? Or does the name change to NRL?

No, at night, they just become your regular sidelights.

When I learned to drive, lights were easy:

• daytime: off
• daytime poor visibility: dipped headlights
• night in towns: dipped headlights
• night open roads: main beam
• night parked: parking lights

I last looked when my daughter was learning to drive. The rules were incomprehensible partly due to rules for parking/sidelights. They read like a poor deed of covenant for renting a house (poor because you have to pay lawyers to argue over what it means in practice).

I've just checked the on-line highway code, and it has reverted to more or less as I outlined above. Sanity restored.

OTOH, on motorways in heavy rain I've seen cars driving slowly without rear lights on. When overtaking, their front sidelights are on. It crossed my mind that perhaps they've seen front parking/sidelights lights on and not bothered to check the rear lights. (Yes, they should have been using dipped headlights, but in practice that wasn't vital on a motorway.

[Specmaster]

So they are off at night? Or does the name change to NRL?

No, at night, they just become your regular sidelights.

When I learned to drive, lights were easy:

• daytime: off
• daytime poor visibility: dipped headlights
• night in towns: dipped headlights
• night open roads: main beam
• night parked: parking lights

I last looked when my daughter was learning to drive. The rules were incomprehensible partly due to rules for parking/sidelights. They read like a poor deed of covenant for renting a house (poor because you have to pay lawyers to argue over what it means in practice).

I've just checked the on-line highway code, and it has reverted to more or less as I outlined above. Sanity restored.

OTOH, on motorways in heavy rain I've seen cars driving slowly without rear lights on. When overtaking, their front sidelights are on. It crossed my mind that perhaps they've seen front parking/sidelights lights on and not bothered to check the rear lights. (Yes, they should have been using dipped headlights, but in practice that wasn't vital on a motorway.

Yeah, its mental, some drivers seem to operate along similar thought processes to cyclists, i.e., if I can see you, then you can see me regardless, others are just bat shit crazy.

Thank goodness for most modern cars coming with automatic lights these days, my old one has those along with full LED package and I never had a single failure of them, and they are still fully functional, even after the crash, most normal bulbs would have failed for sure after the impact at least.

The new car is the same, full LED package, Auto lights and the DRL's are switched on as soon as the engine is started and in poor visibility such as fog, rain, snow etc, the rear lights and headlights are automatically switched on, and in the event of rain or snow, so are the wipers. This and the old car also has park assist, a system that will automatically measure any parking space between other cars and steer you into it, it makes no difference if the cars are parked parallel by the roadside or end on as in most car parks, you select the mode and the direction of travel as instructed and do the braking. Only ever used it once for the novelty value, after parking 12m long vehicles with zero problems, a 4.9 m car is a doddle, but I can see many will use it.

[mansaxel]

The rules were incomprehensible partly due to rules for parking/sidelights. They read like a poor deed of covenant for renting a house (poor because you have to pay lawyers to argue over what it means in practice).

Here, the rules are simple (were simple, then industry intervened): Car moving, needs lights. When dark, lights need to be useful for illumination and not only positioning. I run with dipped headlights ALL the time, except when I un-dip them. The science is pretty good on it being a real benefit for safety. Also, the fad of running w/o rear lights: Boo, hiss! Shite lobbyism by industry. Mine are on. Permanently.

[Specmaster]

The rules were incomprehensible partly due to rules for parking/sidelights. They read like a poor deed of covenant for renting a house (poor because you have to pay lawyers to argue over what it means in practice).

Here, the rules are simple (were simple, then industry intervened): Car moving, needs lights. When dark, lights need to be useful for illumination and not only positioning. I run with dipped headlights ALL the time, except when I un-dip them. The science is pretty good on it being a real benefit for safety. Also, the fad of running w/o rear lights: Boo, hiss! Shite lobbyism by industry. Mine are on. Permanently.

I take it that your car is fairly old and is not fitted with LED DRLs as standard fitment, would that be correct? For a long time, a lot of cars were fitted DRLs mounted towards the bottom of the front bumper and often doubled up as fog lights. Then came LED DRLs which had the advantage of not only being very bright (a legal requirement over here) but also consumed very little power, thus demanding little power from the engine to drive the alternator, and in turn producing lower emissions. These DRLs are required to be on only when the engine is running to make the vehicle easier to see, thus also easier to gauge its speed and also to assist in identifying a vehicle which is either moving, or could become moving in an instant. These DRL's are required to be switched off when the headlights are activated to avoid dazzling other drivers.

My car does not switch them off when headlights are on, instead it dims them and they then become front side lamps. No point in having the side and tail lamps on during the day as they so low in brightness that is hard to actually detect they are on, especially the rear lamps. My headlights and also side and rear lamps are switched on automatically when the sensor thinks the light is low enough to warrant them being on. It is so sensitive just driving under a bridge or over hanging tree will cause them to be switched on, even in sunlight, and only switched off when the system is convinced that the light level is not going to fade away anytime soon.

[tggzzz]

My car does not switch them off when headlights are on, instead it dims them and they then become front side lamps. No point in having the side and tail lamps on during the day as they so low in brightness that is hard to actually detect they are on, especially the rear lamps. My headlights and also side and rear lamps are switched on automatically when the sensor thinks the light is low enough to warrant them being on. It is so sensitive just driving under a bridge or over hanging tree will cause them to be switched on, even in sunlight, and only switched off when the system is convinced that the light level is not going to fade away anytime soon.

What happens to the rear lights?

If they are automatically turned on/off then a following driver would think they car was breaking (and had the central brake light failed).

[Specmaster]

My car does not switch them off when headlights are on, instead it dims them and they then become front side lamps. No point in having the side and tail lamps on during the day as they so low in brightness that is hard to actually detect they are on, especially the rear lamps. My headlights and also side and rear lamps are switched on automatically when the sensor thinks the light is low enough to warrant them being on. It is so sensitive just driving under a bridge or over hanging tree will cause them to be switched on, even in sunlight, and only switched off when the system is convinced that the light level is not going to fade away anytime soon.

What happens to the rear lights?

If they are automatically turned on/off then a following driver would think they car was breaking (and had the central brake light failed).

Fraid not, the rear lights are not so bright on any car that they can confused as the brake lights, which are normally rated at least 21W as opposed to the rear lights at just 5W.

[Robert]

DRL's are front only without rear during the day for good physiological reasons.
In daylight conditions the PERCEIVED difference in brightness between rear lights and brake lights is much lower than at night. This running with rear lights on in daylight increases the reaction time of following briveres to a braking event. This is off-set somewhat by high level brake lights and the fast response of LED brake lights but it is still better to have them off in daylight.

The thing that annoys me is the "knight rider" indicators that were started by VAG. These are not allowed by UK regulations but as they were type approved in europe we accept them.

Robert.

[Specmaster]

I totally agree with your comment about "Knight Rider" rear lights, that blackening of the lenses makes it so much harder to see the state of the lights, especially if the sun is shining on them at the right angle, then it is almost impossible to see them.

Another thing I dislike are Polaroid sunglasses, they are great for driving normally, but can make reading any digital display inside the car again, almost impossible as the displays seem to need polarising filters in order for them to work correctly and these can work against those in the glasses and make display units appear almost black.

[mansaxel]

This running with rear lights on in daylight increases the reaction time of following briveres to a braking event. This is off-set somewhat by high level brake lights and the fast response of LED brake lights but it is still better to have them off in daylight.

I'd argue that the presence of separately placed brake lights is enough to make the increased visibility of a car with lit rear lights pay off, even with the loss of distinction in the "dark -> lit" becoming "lit, somewhat -> lit up like a christmas tree" transition.

Also, brake lights are so much brighter, at least on well designed cars, that it in practice is no issue. This of course excludes Lucas equipped vehicles, where "brightness" is shunned.

[mnementh]

DRL's are front only without rear during the day for good physiological reasons.
In daylight conditions the PERCEIVED difference in brightness between rear lights and brake lights is much lower than at night. This running with rear lights on in daylight increases the reaction time of following briveres to a braking event. This is off-set somewhat by high level brake lights and the fast response of LED brake lights but it is still better to have them off in daylight.

The thing that annoys me is the "knight rider" indicators that were started by VAG. These are not allowed by UK regulations but as they were type approved in europe we accept them.

Robert.

Simply not true. One of the first implementations of DRL in the US was at Chrysler when I was working as a dealership tech, which (we were told) used the Euro standard for operation. The DRLs on vehicles so equipped used the front turn-signal filament for the DRL; all the lights were controlled by the ECM, so it was dead-simple to implement, and such features could easily be turned on/off with the DRB II.

Daytime: Parking lights back/side on any time engine running. Front turn-signal filaments on solid; switched over to blinking when turn signals engaged.

Daytime/wipers on: As with daytime above, only low beams also turned on.

Night-time/any time headlights turned on: Parking lights back/front/side on as usual, headlight operation as usual.

The turn-signal lights themselves were redesigned to handle the additional heat build-up of being lit all the time, and standard equipment was 3157 extended life/rough service bulbs (amber in front (edit)) which had filaments supported by several guy wires along their length. Bulb longevity was not an issue, and these vehicles were being sold with the 10/100 warranty that nearly bankrupted Chrysler on the older gen K-cars.

DRL were being marketed as a benefit at the time, because it saved you money on your liability insurance. Only when a customer asked that they be turned off was this changed. It was part of our "dealership prep" of a new car (along with peeling the plastic off hood/fenders and installing hubcaps/floormats, etc) was to ensure DRL was enabled and set to the correct DRL mode.

The "perceived brightness" issue was never a problem in reality; the taillights are barely visible in the day and very much necessary when passing through dark areas like alleys, under bridges, and tunnels.

mnem

[Specmaster]

DRL's are front only without rear during the day for good physiological reasons.
In daylight conditions the PERCEIVED difference in brightness between rear lights and brake lights is much lower than at night. This running with rear lights on in daylight increases the reaction time of following briveres to a braking event. This is off-set somewhat by high level brake lights and the fast response of LED brake lights but it is still better to have them off in daylight.

The thing that annoys me is the "knight rider" indicators that were started by VAG. These are not allowed by UK regulations but as they were type approved in europe we accept them.

Robert.

Simply not true. One of the first implementations of DRL in the US was at Chrysler when I was working as a dealership tech, which (we were told) used the Euro standard for operation. The DRLs on vehicles so equipped used the front turn-signal filament for the DRL; all the lights were controlled by the ECM, so it was dead-simple to implement, and such features could easily be turned on/off with the DRB II.

Daytime: Parking lights back/side on any time engine running. Front turn-signal filaments on solid; switched over to blinking when turn signals engaged.

Daytime/wipers on: As with daytime above, only low beams also turned on.

Night-time/any time headlights turned on: Parking lights back/front/side on as usual, headlight operation as usual.

The turn-signal lights themselves were redesigned to handle the additional heat build-up of being lit all the time, and standard equipment was 3157 extended life/rough service bulbs which had filaments supported by several guy wires along their length. Bulb longevity was not an issue, and these vehicles were being sold with the 10/100 warranty that nearly bankrupted Chrysler on the older gen K-cars.

DRL were being marketed as a benefit at the time, because it saved you money on your liability insurance. Only when a customer asked that they be turned off was this changed. It was part of our "dealership prep" of a new car (along with peeling the plastic off hood/fenders and installing hubcaps/floormats, etc) was to ensure DRL was enabled and set to the correct DRL mode.

The "perceived brightness" issue was never a problem in reality; the taillights are barely visible in the day and very much necessary when passing through dark areas like alleys, under bridges, and tunnels.

mnem

What, you mean to tell me that you Americans used to have white front turn signals

We here in the UK had amber signals back and front for years, even cars such as Rolls-Royces that never showed any amber lens at the front, actually had amber lights. They used the fog lights fitted with a special twin bulb which had a 38W filament for the fog light and a 21W for the turn signal function, and that was coloured amber.

I even modified standard fog lights to accept that bulb and then fitted them to my 1959 Hillman Minx when I was an apprentice electrician working for my local bus company. That said, my Hillman Minx was fitted with white signals, but it was a 1959 model, subsequent models did have amber lights.

Rolls_Royce_Silver_Cloud_I_1956_licence_plate_1963_Castle_Hedingham_2008.JPG

Rolls Royce fog and turn lamp.jpg

Rolls Royce fog and turn bulb.jpg

JS121_Minx_04.jpg

1280px-Hillman_Minx_Series_V_1592_cc_first_registered_March_1964.JPG

[mnementh]

Nope... those vehicles used amber 3157 bulbs in the front, and the DRL were amber. The turn signal/DRL cell for the front lights was designed to focus the beam similarly to a headlight low beam, and it worked very well; you really noticed them.

Seemed a perfectly logical solution to me.

Some vehicles had the euro-style amber turn signal in back, others had US-traditional red combination brake/turn. Parking lights were always in the red cell of the taillight no matter which turn signal was used.

mnem
(runs back and corrects original post)