Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

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tggzzz
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tggzzz »

Zenith wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 8:16 pm
tggzzz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 10:11 am Are there any local laws about excessive noise? I doubt there are any about excessive strobe lights :twisted:

As for put-put devices, not much can beat hydraulic rams - and they are useful. :twisted:
In the UK there's this

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/20 ... c-nuisance

There was a common law offence of public nuisance, which it replaces. There's also a tort of private nuisance under which a civil action could be pursued. Of course it would be best to go to the person creating the nuisance and request them to stop, before involving the law.

A big strobe light in the garden would be grounds for some sort of action. Now there's a difference between having a remedy in law and making effective use of it.
All very plausible.

It reminds me of one AP Herbert's "Misleading Cases", which hinged on whether snails were (in English law) "wild and ferocious" or "tame and domesticated". Basic plot: neighbour accused Albert Haddock of subverting his chances of winning (at the village fair vegetable competition) by throwing snails into his garden to eat his vegetables. Haddock was liable If snails were "tame and domesticated", but not if "wild and ferocious".

Naturally life imitates art, so today's news story is a £36m lawsuit which depends on whether moths are "vermin".
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... on-mansion
Zenith
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by Zenith »

tggzzz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 10:50 pm
Zenith wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 8:16 pm
In the UK there's this

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/20 ... c-nuisance

There was a common law offence of public nuisance, which it replaces. There's also a tort of private nuisance under which a civil action could be pursued. Of course it would be best to go to the person creating the nuisance and request them to stop, before involving the law.

A big strobe light in the garden would be grounds for some sort of action. Now there's a difference between having a remedy in law and making effective use of it.
All very plausible.

It reminds me of one AP Herbert's "Misleading Cases", which hinged on whether snails were (in English law) "wild and ferocious" or "tame and domesticated". Basic plot: neighbour accused Albert Haddock of subverting his chances of winning (at the village fair vegetable competition) by throwing snails into his garden to eat his vegetables. Haddock was liable If snails were "tame and domesticated", but not if "wild and ferocious".
A false dichotomy. For instance a Tibetan Mastiff is domesticated but ferocious. It could even be affectionate and playful, if you're the one that feeds it. Wild but tame - dugongs come to mind.
tggzzz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 10:50 pm Naturally life imitates art, so today's news story is a £36m lawsuit which depends on whether moths are "vermin".
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... on-mansion
I haven't read that tat rag in years. From the gist of it I have the impression that some people have far too much money to waste on keeping lawyers rich. I can think of better charities.

Nuisance neighbours are a nightmare and taking neighbours to court is not a great idea.
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bd139
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by bd139 »

The trick is to get someone else to “sort” the problem and have a good alibi. Cheaper than the legal profession.

On that note, I’m about to get on a plane, so if anything happens, it wasn’t me!
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by vk6zgo »

bd139 wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 12:33 pm That reminds me of a neighbour we had once. "Humberman" he was known as. Had a large collection of Humbers parked literally everywhere he could squeeze them. They were all broken, noisy and turned into smoke screens instantly.
Reminds me in turn of another mate who had a backyard chock full of "Step down" Hudsons at his parents' place.

They also bought a "Bush block" & chucked a small cottage on it, where he could make all the noise he liked.
The paddock had various strange automotive beasts strewn around it, such as a 1948 Vauxhall Wyvern which was amazingly good at tearing through the bush, especially after he bodged dual rear wheels onto it, & later a Fordson Major & an International crawler tractor.

He also had a dead Super Snipe which ended up donating its fancy front headlamps to replace dead ones on a 1960s Velox.
That Vauxhall always caused people to do a "double take" with the center piece & three "spokes"on the sealed beams.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tggzzz »

Zenith wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 11:31 pm
tggzzz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 10:50 pm
Zenith wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 8:16 pm
In the UK there's this

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/20 ... c-nuisance

There was a common law offence of public nuisance, which it replaces. There's also a tort of private nuisance under which a civil action could be pursued. Of course it would be best to go to the person creating the nuisance and request them to stop, before involving the law.

A big strobe light in the garden would be grounds for some sort of action. Now there's a difference between having a remedy in law and making effective use of it.
All very plausible.

It reminds me of one AP Herbert's "Misleading Cases", which hinged on whether snails were (in English law) "wild and ferocious" or "tame and domesticated". Basic plot: neighbour accused Albert Haddock of subverting his chances of winning (at the village fair vegetable competition) by throwing snails into his garden to eat his vegetables. Haddock was liable If snails were "tame and domesticated", but not if "wild and ferocious".
A false dichotomy. For instance a Tibetan Mastiff is domesticated but ferocious. It could even be affectionate and playful, if you're the one that feeds it. Wild but tame - dugongs come to mind.
Er. Of course. That's the point of the story - and the core of many of the Misleading Cases,

You appear to be confusing English Law with anything sensible.

As for that class of dogs, I refer you to the recent sad tale of the 10yo girl killed by the family XL bully which her family say she had a "a close, loving relationship" with.
tggzzz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 10:50 pm Naturally life imitates art, so today's news story is a £36m lawsuit which depends on whether moths are "vermin".
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... on-mansion
I haven't read that tat rag in years. From the gist of it I have the impression that some people have far too much money to waste on keeping lawyers rich. I can think of better charities.

Nuisance neighbours are a nightmare and taking neighbours to court is not a great idea.
"That tat rag" is merely reporting the idiocy, not generating it.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tggzzz »

bd139 wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2024 5:12 am On that note, I’m about to get on a plane, so if anything happens, it wasn’t me!
It sounds as if you think there's a non-zero chance you won't land in it - something that's happened to me on several occasions.
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bd139
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by bd139 »

tggzzz wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2024 9:08 am
bd139 wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2024 5:12 am On that note, I’m about to get on a plane, so if anything happens, it wasn’t me!
It sounds as if you think there's a non-zero chance you won't land in it - something that's happened to me on several occasions.
BA so you never know. It did land. And in the correct place. And in the correct number of pieces.

Currently heading into Rome on a train …
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by 25 CPS »

Zenith wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 8:16 pm
tggzzz wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 10:11 am Are there any local laws about excessive noise? I doubt there are any about excessive strobe lights :twisted:

As for put-put devices, not much can beat hydraulic rams - and they are useful. :twisted:
In the UK there's this

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/20 ... c-nuisance

There was a common law offence of public nuisance, which it replaces. There's also a tort of private nuisance under which a civil action could be pursued. Of course it would be best to go to the person creating the nuisance and request them to stop, before involving the law.

A big strobe light in the garden would be grounds for some sort of action. Now there's a difference between having a remedy in law and making effective use of it.
I wish there was a remedy in law that I could make effective use of to recover the cost of that lady's vandalism damage to my house and property.

The General Radio Strobotac isn't that big.

I also just priced out a replacement flashbulb on the IET website and it's $485. I'm not sure if IET has a Canadian website so I get the sneaking suspicion that this is probably a US dollar price. If that sticker shock isn't bad enough, there's an equivalent lamp on sale on Amazon for $977 + $26 shipping which pushes it over a grand. Either way, that's a very expensive lamp to wear out before factoring in any currency conversion so the it certainly won't be left running in the back yard frivolously to annoy the bad neighbour. Realistically, it'll be out there for an evening of testing and that'll be it other than for in-service use. Also, realistically, I'd go hunting for another used Strobotac if I need to get a replacement bulb somewhere down the line and that way also have a complete parts unit for a lot less money than buying a new factory replacement lamp.

Edit:

Apparently the General Radio 1531AB Strobotac is still being made by IET (https://www.ietlabs.com/1531.html) but there's a six to eight week lead time and the price is an absolutely eyewatering $6,059. A $485 replacement part on a $6,059 instrument is somewhat understandable.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by 25 CPS »

The main laptop I've been using for test equipment is an Panasonic CF-53 Toughbook I picked up a couple of years ago. It came as a lot with a CF-31 as well which I never did much with since the CF-53 has a larger screen. A number of recent circumstances had me thinking about having both laptops running the test equipment related software would be useful along with the smaller footprint of the CF-31 for portability, so I decided to get it up and running last weekend.

In theory, this should've meant copying the directories of software and manuals over from the CF-53 Toughbook and running the installers, all pretty straightforward. In practice, it turns out that Windows 10 had blown up and de-activated itself, so I ended up having to do battle with Windows 10 first.

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I got Windows 10 sorted out and had a properly working system again. Then I ran the installers and that was another total mess with running into missing supporting .NET packages and having to go multiple rounds with several installers due to various error messages but I eventually got everything loaded - which is not confidence inspiring to anyone that's used computers long enough to know how painful broken installs are. This mandated doing some testing to see if everything works or if there was any obvious brokenness that needed to be dealt with so the laptop went downstairs and I spent an evening listening to music and going through software package one by one.

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The relative size of each laptop's footprints can be seen in this picture. The QuantAsylum QA403 package worked fine but the GUI is cramped on the 1024x768 display. Remember how I ended up getting an outboard powered USB hub because the QA403 was bottoming out on the USB bus power? This actually worked out well because the QA403, an external mouse, and Agilent U82357A USB-HPIB adapter are all connected to it so swapping between laptops means only moving the power adapter and one USB cable between them.

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Keysight's software is where I had the bulk of the installation problems. The U1461A insulation tester was close at hand so I grabbed that to test Keysight Meter Logger figuring that this would be a fairly strenuous test since it can double as a DMM plus it does have some incompatibilities within the Keysight product line, eg. doesn't work with the U1115A remote logging display. The insulation tester checked out fine in both modes though.

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I did take the opportunity to begin wiring the HPIB on a couple of pieces of equipment to make better use of the U82357A than I had been. I hooked up the HP 3457A DMM and 8903B audio analyzer to start with.

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Getting up and running with the 3457A was pretty straightforward and it responds to commands and sends results back. The 8903B was another matter. Sending commands and seeing the machine itself respond is no problem. In the picture above, I sent a 21.1SP from the laptop and the 8903B displayed its HPIB address. Sending an M1 returns it to voltage measurement. Getting results back form the 8903B is where the problems are. Sending an RR or RL to read the values off the left or right displays on the 8903B time out waiting for a response from it and it appears to be factory default with the 28 address and nothing set for talk or listen only. It looks like I'm far from the only person to run into difficulties with this so it'll need more attention later but it's not exactly a high priority since the QA403's automation all works on both laptops. I'm not sure if I ever played around with remote control on the 8903B from the other laptop either.

By then with all the messing around with the 8903B it was getting late and I had to call it a night. Still outstanding to test are the software defined radio and Keysight U1733C LCR meter. The software for both of those had problems installing as well.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by 25 CPS »

Tonight was a continuation of testing the balky Panasonic CF-31 Toughbook and some very minor putting away and organizing stuff.

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The SDRPlay Duo + SDRUno software work. The FM band is the test material as usual because it's convenient: the local radio stations are always on, always strong, and a reasonable wavelength match for the antenna that's sitting on it. In the top picture, we're listening to the CBC. The content got old really fast. I went to the top end of the band for the local rock station, Y108, which had the syndicated "Ongoing History of New Music" show by Alan Cross. I nudged it down to Q107 which also had the same show on but running a couple of minutes behind so I heard the same piece twice. It had a better RDS lock so I took a picture of that.

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The Keysight U1733C LCR meter works fine with the ageing Agilent software that goes with it. I guess I did things out of sequence because I discovered that if you calibrate the meter at the default 1 kHz test frequency on power up, then open the software, it defaults to the lowest test frequency which on this meter is 100 Hz. Then, after you move it back to 1 kHz, the calibration data's gone and the meter's using the out-of-the-box factory defaults.

That concludes the testing of the new laptop build. It's amazing how things that on the face of it should be pretty straightforward can turn into an epic odyssey. The problems with the software installations had raised a lot of doubt but I'm now confident enough in that laptop to take it out on the road with the portable test equipment.

The two Toughbooks are pretty much dedicated test equipment systems so they're going to stay on the versions they're on because they work. It's a contrast to my iPad which is a general use device so it gets updated even though it has the Keysight Meter Logger and Insulation Tester apps on it. The problem that's emerged is that as iOS has been updated, Keysight hasn't done any updates to their apps and the Insulation Tester app has gotten increasingly buggy. The last time I used it after an iOS update, the graph wouldn't plot. I was first going to say that it isn't going to get an update to fix bugs, not with the insulation testers being discontinued a couple of years ago but I checked the App Store and it isn't even listed at all there anymore. Meter Logger is still there but it hasn't been updated since 2017 after being introduced in 2015. Obviously this hasn't been kept current either, and with Keysight apparently in the process of discontinuing their handheld DMMs, I seriously doubt Meter Logger will ever be updated again and it'll probably disappear from the App Store too eventually.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by mnementh »

25 CPS wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 1:28 am
mnementh wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:32 pm Now I wanna come back to the GWN and build a 20x scale version of that in a lot across the road from you. :twisted:

mnem
yes, you may touch it.
mnementh wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 10:37 pm As a hotel.

mnem
:lol:
I'd enjoy that just for the fact it would send that awful neighbour into an epic snit.

I was tossing an idea around for that Strobotac I got recently and since music triggered disco lights have been brought up, I definitely have to do it now.

Since the clocks have changed and it's getting dark really early, one of my friends and I are going to take the Strobotac into the back yard on one of the dry, warmer evenings and play with it to stop and sample motion. But the Strobotac can also be triggered externally so I was thinking of cranking up some music outside and try triggering it off of a sound signal. I'm sure she's going to enjoy all of this.
I heartily endorse this gratuitous misuse of “disco gear”….

mnem
Please record video for antisocial media.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by AVGresponding »

Got this in a job lot this week, wonder if Mike can tell me if it's worth trying to flip it:
44e02f5b-c7dd-4917-a31f-abe6d5b1e0d3.jpg
IMG_20241123_112103390.jpg
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tggzzz »

I'd post a text description to the TekScopes group. If you aren't a member, send me the text and I'll post it.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by MED6753 »

AVGresponding wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 3:15 pm Got this in a job lot this week, wonder if Mike can tell me if it's worth trying to flip it:

44e02f5b-c7dd-4917-a31f-abe6d5b1e0d3.jpg

IMG_20241123_112103390.jpg


What is it?
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by AVGresponding »

According to the TekWiki, it's a power supply for a type 131 model 4 current probe amplifier, 230V variant. Part number 015-028.

Also trying to identify this little bastard:

Has what looks like a NSN but probably isn't, 6130-99-117-8700

f84f6be4-1f7b-4117-a1fc-6ba87fba5635.jpg
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by MED6753 »

I have no clue if it's worth anything or not. Does Ebay give any insight?
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Robert
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by Robert »

AVGresponding wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:16 pm According to the TekWiki, it's a power supply for a type 131 model 4 current probe amplifier, 230V variant. Part number 015-028.

Also trying to identify this little bastard:

Has what looks like a NSN but probably isn't, 6130-99-117-8700


f84f6be4-1f7b-4117-a1fc-6ba87fba5635.jpg
That is a high voltage power supply for a multistage (GEN 1) image intensifier tube. 2.7kV AC output to drive a multiplier chain built into the tube.
Would be used with a Mullard XX1060 or similar. Later tubes like XX1063 had built in inverters and low voltage (around 6.5 V) DC input.
L1A1 'scope had AC tube, L1A7 had DC tube and dummy inverter

Robert G8RPI.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tautech »

AVGresponding wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:16 pm According to the TekWiki, it's a power supply for a type 131 model 4 current probe amplifier, 230V variant. Part number 015-028.
Yup with EU plug.
Scored one similar locally for my 131 that came with the 110VAC PS.
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Robert
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by Robert »

No, the Tek PSU has a North American plug (NEMA 5-15P). Technically this makes it illegal to use in the UK.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by mansaxel »

Robert wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2024 8:11 am No, the Tek PSU has a North American plug (NEMA 5-15P). Technically this makes it illegal to use in the UK.
Given the mediocre qualities of the Nema 5-15P it should be illegal worldwide. I do have a small assortment of compatible cables and outlet strips, bought back in the day when laptop batteries lasted perhaps 3h, and I often went to conferences in toy mains land. I still bring an extension cord with 4 outlets on when I go there (next time will now be at least 4 years in the future, btw) because hotel rooms never have enough outlets.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by AVGresponding »

Robert wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:46 pm That is a high voltage power supply for a multistage (GEN 1) image intensifier tube. 2.7kV AC output to drive a multiplier chain built into the tube.
Would be used with a Mullard XX1060 or similar. Later tubes like XX1063 had built in inverters and low voltage (around 6.5 V) DC input.
L1A1 'scope had AC tube, L1A7 had DC tube and dummy inverter

Robert G8RPI.
How much current output are we looking at? A few hundred uA, maybe 1mA at most I'd guess? Would be useful to know so my test rig doesn't load it down.

Also what sort of input voltage? Around 6 like the other one you mentioned?
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by Robert »

Frequency is between 1 and 2.5kHz. Loaded with 50pF 2500V +- 200V (presume this is with an electrostatic meter or similar) output should drop to 1900V +- 400V when loaded with 50pF and 25 megohm. input is nominally 6.75V maximum but has a variable supply to control gain.

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by 25 CPS »

This flyer was at the mechanic's shop this morning. I couldn't help but notice the photoshop job on the clamp meter:

Image

Image

I get it, it's advertising, replacing the screen in the picture's somewhat to be expected as is not being connected to anything. But the function switch being in the off position, that was a bit much.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by mansaxel »

New arrival, the -hp- 8640B!

It's been on the wish list basically since I was bit with the TEA bug. And now I own one. A colleague, who already owns one, tipped me off on one that was offered at a low -- for Sweden -- starting price of about 150USD. And it was very local, and pickup only, the latter being very good to scare off remote bidders. And, I sniped it; ending up just below 200 USD. Given the market in Sweden, this is a good price.

Some history:
  • It's built in the UK -- supposedly South Queensferry.
  • It's got Options 001 and 003, so internal AF oscillator and reverse power protection.
  • It's last calibration was 2005, on my birthday, no less. ("It was meant for me!")
  • It probably saw use as a non-cal instrument after that, because it's got a sticker saying just as much, "Non calibrated, not for reference work".
  • It's got inventory tags from Telenor, the Norwegian Phone Company, but I don't think it was imported from Norway, stickers are in Swedish. Telenor has considerable operations in Sweden, including a subsidiary that maintains 2-way radios and systems like TETRA or older analog trunked radio.
Best part of it all, it works!

Image

Yeah, it's PotatoCAMtm de luxe, but it is within a few kHz. I've got a 10dB attenuator in line, and have set the 8640B to -30dBm out, and the TinySA reports -37,9dBm.

I'm happy.
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by nixiefreqq »

others here disagree......but I have always really liked the look of those dot LEDs. the 8640b locked to a rubidium standard is my go to sig generator for anything under 500 Mhz.
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