Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

[mnementh]

Just a quick note wishing you all the best on this Easter Holiday, and hope you have a lovely get-together with lots of friends, family and fabulous food!

mnem
*rolls himself out to the living room couch to watch another ep of ANDOR widda wife & kids*

[Specmaster]

Anyone looking for a investment in automotive history? My son was asked to do a series of photos of a car that has been kept in a car cocoon for the 20 years and now the owner has decided to list it in an online auction site, (site as yet unknown), and we went and took the photos yesterday.

The car has only done a genuine 1,800 miles from new and was purchased as a present for the owners wife, but she did not enjoy driving cars with manual gearboxes, so it has been mothballed in luxury in the cocoon and is in a con concours condition throughout. It has had regular servicing as per owner's manual, and has had 2 cam belt replacements in that time, all documented, and has current MOT.

The car is a Audi 1.8L TT Quattro and the photo below is the car and it really is in perfect condition, just as it rolled out of the showroom. The cocoon is a temperature and humidity controlled environment with filtered air being circulated within it.

Audi 1.8l TT Quattro.jpg

[tggzzz]

Anyone looking for a investment in automotive history?

Too many wheels. Too few wings

[Specmaster]

Just a quick note wishing you all the best on this Easter Holiday, and hope you have a lovely get-together with lots of friends, family and fabulous food!

mnem
*rolls himself out to the living room couch to watch another ep of ANDOR widda wife & kids*

Well you managed to get a micrometer and a computer mouse in the frame, but where was the essential HP calculator?

[mnementh]

Just a quick note wishing you all the best on this Easter Holiday, and hope you have a lovely get-together with lots of friends, family and fabulous food!

mnem
*rolls himself out to the living room couch to watch another ep of ANDOR widda wife & kids*

Well you managed to get a micrometer and a computer mouse in the frame, but where was the essential HP calculator?

Right where it belongs... on the other end of the mouse.

mnem

plus42.JPG

[TonyAlbus]

Yes found myself one
Amazing how easy the Hack is for free upgrade and so easy the calibration. Love it!

front.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07PQgYAeSyc

[MED6753]

Anyone looking for a investment in automotive history? My son was asked to do a series of photos of a car that has been kept in a car cocoon for the 20 years and now the owner has decided to list it in an online auction site, (site as yet unknown), and we went and took the photos yesterday.

The car has only done a genuine 1,800 miles from new and was purchased as a present for the owners wife, but she did not enjoy driving cars with manual gearboxes, so it has been mothballed in luxury in the cocoon and is in a con concours condition throughout. It has had regular servicing as per owner's manual, and has had 2 cam belt replacements in that time, all documented, and has current MOT.

The car is a Audi 1.8L TT Quattro and the photo below is the car and it really is in perfect condition, just as it rolled out of the showroom. The cocoon is a temperature and humidity controlled environment with filtered air being circulated within it. Audi 1.8l TT Quattro.jpg

Nice car. However, it has a factory defect. The steering wheel is on the wrong side. Quality control at it's best.

[Specmaster]

Anyone looking for a investment in automotive history? My son was asked to do a series of photos of a car that has been kept in a car cocoon for the 20 years and now the owner has decided to list it in an online auction site, (site as yet unknown), and we went and took the photos yesterday.

The car has only done a genuine 1,800 miles from new and was purchased as a present for the owners wife, but she did not enjoy driving cars with manual gearboxes, so it has been mothballed in luxury in the cocoon and is in a con concours condition throughout. It has had regular servicing as per owner's manual, and has had 2 cam belt replacements in that time, all documented, and has current MOT.

The car is a Audi 1.8L TT Quattro and the photo below is the car and it really is in perfect condition, just as it rolled out of the showroom. The cocoon is a temperature and humidity controlled environment with filtered air being circulated within it. Audi 1.8l TT Quattro.jpg

Nice car. However, it has a factory defect. The steering wheel is on the wrong side. Quality control at it's best.

No, I won't have that, the steering is on the "right", maybe you need stronger glasses, have another look and tell me which side it is on, sure looks "right" to me.

[Cubdriver]

Anyone looking for a investment in automotive history? My son was asked to do a series of photos of a car that has been kept in a car cocoon for the 20 years and now the owner has decided to list it in an online auction site, (site as yet unknown), and we went and took the photos yesterday.

The car has only done a genuine 1,800 miles from new and was purchased as a present for the owners wife, but she did not enjoy driving cars with manual gearboxes, so it has been mothballed in luxury in the cocoon and is in a con concours condition throughout. It has had regular servicing as per owner's manual, and has had 2 cam belt replacements in that time, all documented, and has current MOT.

The car is a Audi 1.8L TT Quattro and the photo below is the car and it really is in perfect condition, just as it rolled out of the showroom. The cocoon is a temperature and humidity controlled environment with filtered air being circulated within it. Audi 1.8l TT Quattro.jpg

Nice car. However, it has a factory defect. The steering wheel is on the wrong side. Quality control at it's best.

No, I won't have that, the steering is on the "right", maybe you need stronger glasses, have another look and tell me which side it is on, sure looks "right" to me.

The steering wheel may be on the right, but at least over here we drive on the right side of the road!

-Pat

[25 CPS]

I suspect that the GenRad counter is an 1191-B (though I'm a fan of the 1911, I don't believe GR ever made them), and is certainly in much better condition than my basket case one! I look forward to pics to see what one is supposed to look like!

And I'll second Mike's sentiments - nice haul!

-Pat

You're probably right about the model number. I'll double check and see what it is and I'll try to get it on the bench and some pictures for you sometime in the next few days.

very nice haul!

loved my 141t spectrum analyzers. when they were working.

but those damn power supplies just did not age well. yours will be full of the standard toasty brown resistors. good luck even reading the color codes. got tired of replacing fuses and trouble shooting about every other power up. was gonna just attempt a total replacement of the inboard PS with modern parts.........but instead gave the lot away to a guy with a half dozen of the damn things when a reasonable 8569b came my way. the 8569b has never given any trouble.

but like i said......when a 141t is working it is a thing of beauty.

edit. forgot to say......the tracking preselector is worth its weight in gold.......AND you got the cable too! those cables are almost unobtainable. my buddy with the 141t collection made his own, but there was much cursing and gnashing of teeth. he lent me a cable and a preselector up until my 141t meltdown. finally, when i unloaded all my 141t junk back in his truck ......... he seemed happiest to see his cable again.

Ah, thanks for that - good to know about the power supplies. I'll make sure to check them out first after I go through the manual and get a better understanding of the 141T. I've never used one before much less opened one up. I'm pretty much useless when it comes to resistor colour codes due to being colourblind myself so there's no change from the usual there for me. I did have the presence of mind to make sure to take a picture of the 141T rig still connected before we took it off his workbench even though it is the one interconnect jumper between the two units:



This way I can reconnect it exactly as it was.

Right now, with the several days of beautiful weather we've got that's overlapping my days off, I'm taking care of some spring cleanup and getting ready to smoke some ribs today and tomorrow I'm taking the truck in to get the winter wheels changed out then going to a family member's birthday party so I'm not likely to have much time to dig into test equipment until the weekend with what spare after work time I end up with.

[Cubdriver]

I think the 141T uses some gas references (basically glorified neon lamps) in its power supply regulation circuitry, and with age they become less inclined to strike - they had a small amount of Kr-85 in the envelopes to encourage ignition and by now it’s several half-lives in and not as helpful with lighting them off. As a result, voltage rails get higher than they should on startup and can cause problems with other things in the circuit. There has been some recent discussion on their replacement with something more modern and reliable on the HPAK mailing list at groups.io; take a look at the archives for more information.

-Pat

[tggzzz]

I think the 141T uses some gas references (basically glorified neon lamps) in its power supply regulation circuitry, and with age they become less inclined to strike - they had a small amount of Kr-85 in the envelopes to encourage ignition and by now it’s several half-lives in and not as helpful with lighting them off. As a result, voltage rails get higher than they should on startup and can cause problems with other things in the circuit. There has been some recent discussion on their replacement with something more modern and reliable on the HPAK mailing list at groups.io; take a look at the archives for more information.

-Pat

I have a Solartron DVM which uses a neon as it's voltage reference.

To calibrate the neon reference it has a Weston Standard Cell; twiddle the front panel trimpot until the display reads 1.019. Seems to work

[25 CPS]

I think the 141T uses some gas references (basically glorified neon lamps) in its power supply regulation circuitry, and with age they become less inclined to strike - they had a small amount of Kr-85 in the envelopes to encourage ignition and by now it’s several half-lives in and not as helpful with lighting them off. As a result, voltage rails get higher than they should on startup and can cause problems with other things in the circuit. There has been some recent discussion on their replacement with something more modern and reliable on the HPAK mailing list at groups.io; take a look at the archives for more information.

-Pat

I wonder if they'd be more inclined to strike if the case is open and light is getting in. I definitely have some research to do and some investigating once I have some time.

[Zenith]

I wonder if they'd be more inclined to strike if the case is open and light is getting in. I definitely have some research to do and some investigating once I have some time.

Quite likely. I have a BC348 airborne receiver which uses a 991 neon to regulate the local oscillator supply. It didn't strike on the lowest waveband because the voltage was too low. The striking voltage increases with age. It did strike when light hit it - at least sunlight through a window, which has a bit of UV. However, it's not a very practical way of dealing with a troublesome neon regulator.

Some neon regulators had a pellet of radioactive material, which I recall was Cobalt 60, to get them to strike more reliably.

How about a codge based on a UV LED to get it to strike?

[mnementh]

Definitely got every last mile out of that one, dinn't I...?



"Hone-e-e-e-ey... My car is making funny noises between first & second gear."

"Funny Ha-haa, or funny EEEEEEEK! ?!?"

"Well, it's more of a screeching sound like a belt, but it goes away after I get out of 2nd gear... I don't understand it."







"That'll probably be the belt squealing because the alternator is working hard to charge the battery just after you started the car. Pop the hood..."

mnem
That's right, she can be taught!!!

[AVGresponding]

I wonder if they'd be more inclined to strike if the case is open and light is getting in. I definitely have some research to do and some investigating once I have some time.

Quite likely. I have a BC348 airborne receiver which uses a 991 neon to regulate the local oscillator supply. It didn't strike on the lowest waveband because the voltage was too low. The striking voltage increases with age. It did strike when light hit it - at least sunlight through a window, which has a bit of UV. However, it's not a very practical way of dealing with a troublesome neon regulator.

Some neon regulators had a pellet of radioactive material, which I recall was Cobalt 60, to get them to strike more reliably.

How about a codge based on a UV LED to get it to strike?

I recall in one of Paul Carlson's videos he mentions an incandescent lamp in the bowels of a machine that is there for this sort of purpose.

[mnementh]

If UV excitement is what is needed, seems to me the simplest solution does have to be a LED; most amount of UV for lowest current load. Common white LEDs emit a fair amount of UV at a reasonably broad spectra; of course there are narrow BW ones in UV and near-UV as well.

mnem
I know, I know... heresy...

[tggzzz]

I wonder if they'd be more inclined to strike if the case is open and light is getting in. I definitely have some research to do and some investigating once I have some time.

Quite likely. I have a BC348 airborne receiver which uses a 991 neon to regulate the local oscillator supply. It didn't strike on the lowest waveband because the voltage was too low. The striking voltage increases with age. It did strike when light hit it - at least sunlight through a window, which has a bit of UV. However, it's not a very practical way of dealing with a troublesome neon regulator.

Some neon regulators had a pellet of radioactive material, which I recall was Cobalt 60, to get them to strike more reliably.

How about a codge based on a UV LED to get it to strike?

I recall in one of Paul Carlson's videos he mentions an incandescent lamp in the bowels of a machine that is there for this sort of purpose.

Given incandescent bulbs don't emit much blue or violet let alone megasuperduper violet, is that really the reason for the incandescent bulb? I've had meters where the bulb was an overcurrent protection mechanism; just as well when the NiCd turned out to be a short circuit!

(I don't know much about Carlson. I spent maybe 5 minutes looking at a couple of his videos before deciding I didn't want to spend 30mins looking at his jaw flap, and probably not getting much information from him. Yes, that's my standard vid prejudice, but he illustrates the reason for it)

[mnementh]

Yeaaahhh... I'm telling you dude; that guy has a walk-in freezer with shelf after shelf of neatly boxed and indexed human lips.
mnem
And when nobody's watching he sits in a wing chair, smiling beatifically & dipping cookies in his tea while he listens to them sing...

[Zenith]

If UV excitement is what is needed, seems to me the simplest solution does have to be a LED; most amount of UV for lowest current load. Common white LEDs emit a fair amount of UV at a reasonably broad spectra; of course there are narrow BW ones in UV and near-UV as well.

Dunno what's going on there. I recall that with a Wilson cloud chamber you can see tracks caused by particles emitted from the source. This is different because there's a voltage just on the edge of causing the gas to ionise. So is there avalanching with a gas regulator tube, as with most Zener diodes? There's also the photoelectric effect.

I thought it was curious that sunlight coming through a double glazed window would cause the 991 to strike. I didn't look into it further.

I always had the impression that gas filled tubes, even if designed as voltage references, were very noisy and generally nasty things.

[AVGresponding]

Quite likely. I have a BC348 airborne receiver which uses a 991 neon to regulate the local oscillator supply. It didn't strike on the lowest waveband because the voltage was too low. The striking voltage increases with age. It did strike when light hit it - at least sunlight through a window, which has a bit of UV. However, it's not a very practical way of dealing with a troublesome neon regulator.

Some neon regulators had a pellet of radioactive material, which I recall was Cobalt 60, to get them to strike more reliably.

How about a codge based on a UV LED to get it to strike?

I recall in one of Paul Carlson's videos he mentions an incandescent lamp in the bowels of a machine that is there for this sort of purpose.

Given incandescent bulbs don't emit much blue or violet let alone megasuperduper violet, is that really the reason for the incandescent bulb? I've had meters where the bulb was an overcurrent protection mechanism; just as well when the NiCd turned out to be a short circuit!

(I don't know much about Carlson. I spent maybe 5 minutes looking at a couple of his videos before deciding I didn't want to spend 30mins looking at his jaw flap, and probably not getting much information from him. Yes, that's my standard vid prejudice, but he illustrates the reason for it)

I may have misremembered the type of lamp, but it was definitely to aid in the striking of some glassware based electronics. I might try and see if I can find the vid in question. Maybe...

[tggzzz]

I recall in one of Paul Carlson's videos he mentions an incandescent lamp in the bowels of a machine that is there for this sort of purpose.

Given incandescent bulbs don't emit much blue or violet let alone megasuperduper violet, is that really the reason for the incandescent bulb? I've had meters where the bulb was an overcurrent protection mechanism; just as well when the NiCd turned out to be a short circuit!

(I don't know much about Carlson. I spent maybe 5 minutes looking at a couple of his videos before deciding I didn't want to spend 30mins looking at his jaw flap, and probably not getting much information from him. Yes, that's my standard vid prejudice, but he illustrates the reason for it)

I may have misremembered the type of lamp, but it was definitely to aid in the striking of some glassware based electronics. I might try and see if I can find the vid in question. Maybe...

Fair enough. Obviously don't bother finding the vid for my benefit!

I would imagine that if a gas can absorb a photon of a specific wavelength and then breakdown occurs, then during breakdown it can also emit photons of the same wavelength. If that's the case, maybe the other lamp was neon, not incandescant.

<Digs out pdf of "understanding and using minature neon lamps" by William G Miller, 1969>.

Shows quite a few circuits for voltage stabilisers and references (good to 1%), but doesn't mention stimulating the breakdown.
Does mention that argon lamps emit UV.

Also mentions many different circuits, e.g. using a neon as a peak detector, "computer circuits". I'm almost inspired to make a digital clock/frequency meter using only neon bulbs. Semiconductors are for wimps

[mnementh]

mnem
*toddles off to ded*

[Cubdriver]

Is that one of the little Data Precision meters with the Panaplex display? The one I have lurking about somewhere experienced some pretty bad battery corrosion, so it’s remained in the queue.

-Pat

[mnementh]

Well-spotted Pat, and it turned out to be the surprise of the trip, even over that cosmetically EC Simpson 260 Series III (Series 6 on the scale?) & case with documentation.

I have the eeeevil (6 A-cell NiCd pack) extracted, I have scrubbed/flushed the PCB with Windex then distilled water, and am now contemplating best avenue for repairing the holes & damaged traces left behind when I had to forcibly extract the rotted, riveted spring contacts. Totes wish I could mug somebody for a Bungard Press...

.

Here, have a little teaser...

I chronicled my day at the swap meet in real time on Discord starting here; it is very photo-heavy:

https://discord.com/channels/6580206775 ... 2278676500

https://discord.com/channels/6580206775 ... 8440908871

https://discord.com/channels/6580206775 ... 4759773275

And here is where I started posting pics of the haul from my desktop after I got home. I spent a couple hours posting, so be ready to scroll a wee bit...

https://discord.com/channels/6580206775 ... 2039117976

I do intend to document both the visit to the museum (actual pics inside as well as the swap meet) and my work on these two meters, but I have a "gotta-do list" a mile long right now, so updates will be sporadic at best for prolly at least a week.

NOTE: Images are high-res, so I only posted a couple til I start the repair thread. You can click on the thumbs below for full-size rendering.

mnem
TEA is The Way.