Test Equipment Anonymous

Good news, the air in London right now at 10.00am is good it is firmly in the green zone, the only monitoring site in yellow zone is the one that is always in the yellow at Tolworth junction as it is located right by a subway exit. It always is those that are positioned next to commercial kitchens, in the middle of houses or adjacent to underground vents and stations or located by subways entrances. Those that are located by roads especially mayor roads like the national A road and the circulars are in the green zone, therefore air is good and yet it all blamed on the ICE vehicles, funny that the monitoring stations are not backing this theory up then, it seems to me more linked to the use of natural gas used in cooking and heating, hence higher readings where less traffic is but more houses?

Specmaster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:15 am Good news, the air in London right now at 10.00am is good it is firmly in the green zone, the only monitoring site in yellow zone is the one that is always in the yellow at Tolworth junction as it is located right by a subway exit. It always is those that are positioned next to commercial kitchens, in the middle of houses or adjacent to underground vents and stations or located by subways entrances. Those that are located by roads especially mayor roads like the national A road and the circulars are in the green zone, therefore air is good and yet it all blamed on the ICE vehicles, funny that the monitoring stations are not backing this theory up then, it seems to me more linked to the use of natural gas used in cooking and heating, hence higher readings where less traffic is but more houses?

Ah, conspirancy mode on. Honestly.

mansaxel wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:43 am Ah, conspirancy mode on. Honestly.

I really cannot understand why everyone persists in dismissing what they can see with their own eyes right here on the official monitoring stations across the world that this program taps into to provide anyone who cares to look at it free real time information, it is searchable and can be zoomed right in the precise location at street level in any country and can be tracked down on Google earth and clearly viewed in Street View on Google Earth.
https://aqicn.org/map/world/

Lets understand this, I'm not saying that our air cannot be improved even more, but, we can make far bigger contributions to our air and the rest of the world if we were to concentrate efforts to assist the worst offending countries to clean their air. Air from these vastly polluting countries (119 out of 195 are above the threshold set by the WHO) is blown all over the globe by winds, so improving the air at source, helps everyone worldwide by a significant amount.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... _pollution

When everyone is dismissing it, particularly people with some mathematical and statistical education, you might want to ask yourself why you're still supporting it.

Short version: If you think the EPA (or whatever you have in its place) is the problem, then you are the problem.

Historically, no matter what environmental venue is involved, they've never managed better than a band-aid on a belly-slash vs what is needed to stop all the bastards from poisoning us all. And when it comes to car culture, we are all the bastards here.

The fact these numbers are dropping is the proof that these measures actually work... please don't try to use that as an excuse to undo what little good has been done.

mnem
let us old motorhead dinosaurs die off like the evolutionary dead-end we are.

mnementh wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:58 am Short version: If you think the EPA (or whatever you have in its place) is the problem, then you are the problem.

Historically, no matter what environmental venue is involved, they've never managed better than a band-aid on a belly-slash vs what is needed to stop all the bastards from poisoning us all. And when it comes to car culture, we are all the bastards here.

The fact these numbers are dropping is the proof that these measures actually work... please don't try to use that as an excuse to undo what little good has been done.

mnem
let us old motorhead dinosaurs die off like the evolutionary dead-end we are.

I appreciate the fact that numbers are dropping, never have I denied it, but the charging scheme is far more than it seems. The Mayor had to pay private contractors to do his research and he has so far failed to produce the evidence that air quality is not as the map shows and at every interview, consultation etc has yet to provide the proof of his claims and like dodges every attempt to give detailed answers to questions. That suggests that the evidence does not support the claims he is making. He could have used the same information that our own DEFRA, (Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs) have been and are providing FOC to anybody who needs it.

I'm not in denial, I'm not doing this because it affects me, because it doesn't, yes I don't live in London or in the new zones he is creating, not that matters in the slightest as my car is already fully 100% exempt from the daily charge so I could if I wanted to drive into and around London on a daily basis and I won't be charged.

Neither am I trying to undo what little good has been done , I'm under no illusions that we can carry on as we have been doing, if nothing changes mankind is doomed long term, fact. What is wrong currently is, A. The real motive B. The timing.

It rather seems as if my doubts about the ULEZ scheme and indeed the others that are currently in operation in other locations across the country and many more that are in various stages of preparation are in reality a means of revenue raising rather than cleaning the air as I have already provided links to an air quality map covering the world as well as London and the UK.

As you will know that Hansard is the official record of everything that is said in the HOC in London and that is also available to the public if anyone wants to see what is happening, I'll come back to this point in a while.

Lets examine the case of ULEZ and its fines that will be issued for non-compliant vehicles failing to pay the relevant daily rate for driving within the zone, along with the income from those that do pay the daily charges. What would be the case when all non-compliant vehicles are scrapped and the income is no longer coming in? Is it then considered job done, we have fantastic air we can all rejoice the fact we no longer have 4,000 people dying prematurely as a result of polluted air?

It would seem not, plans are already under way to link all the cameras that these zones rely on to function, together to form a huge network covering the UK and then EV and ultra low emission vehicles will be charged for using the roads by the mile and also by the time of day, and also most likely, by the classification of roads driven on. It is most certainly technically possible to do this.

Now I come back to Hansard again, it comes as no surprise to me that the TFL has already had meetings with the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Richard Holden), and that the prospect of Road Charging has been discussed for the time when the revenue raised by ULEZ, drops to an insignificant level, that the infrastructure be used for that purpose of maintaining the revenue streams.

Here is an extract from Hansard for July 13 2023, and I also provide the official link to the Hansard record of debates for this date and has many topics covered, but the link is mainly for transport.

David Simmonds
(Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con)

Following his recent meeting with Transport for London about its finances, can my hon. Friend update me on what financial modelling it has done on the impact of extending the ultra low emission zone and what account it has taken of the impact should that not go ahead?

Mr Holden

I met the acting chief financial officer and Seb Dance, the deputy Mayor for transport, yesterday. They informed me that the Mayor of London, in anticipation of falling revenues from ULEZ in the next few years, had asked them to investigate the technicalities of introducing road charging across London in the future.

The link is here, as you can see I have not made this up and neither have the many YT presenters who have flagged this up as a Trojan Horse. Yes I know that there are many conspiracy theories on YT and also social media, but we would be wrong to dismiss them all as conspirators and ignore them completely, some it would seem are not necessarily a million miles away from reality

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2 ... lQuestions


Edit
News just in, Life expectancy is actually increasing says the Office of National Statistics and this pre-dates the expansion of ULEZ and surprise is that Londoners have the best chances of living longer than others in the UK, what a shocker here is the link to their report.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... 2018to2020

Also Wolfson Atmospheric Chemistry Laboratories at the University of York, Prof Alastair Lewis said “About half of all the nitrogen dioxide that pollutes central London actually comes from buildings and not from vehicles” said Lewis. The particular problem affecting buildings focuses on the way they are heated. Typical gas boilers and combined heat and power sources produce significant amounts of nitrogen oxides. “This latter issue – of space heating, as it is known – is going to become increasingly important in coming years,” said Lewis.

I cannot as yet substantiate, this aspect of the buildings and in particular the burning of gas for cooking and heating, but it does coincide with what I have already mentioned air quality readings on the https://aqicn.org/map/world/ are showing in some cases, higher readings on housing estates as opposed to those next to major highways like the North Circular Road. So once again, it does seem to indicate that my gut feelings may just be right after all.

mnem
well, that's one solution...

Hmm, seems as if my gut feelings about this and the LEZ in London at least are not actually legal after all and that TFL are totally ignoring the law and yet expect the motorist to abide their version of the law.

Has anyone here been caught for a fine, I wonder? If so, it looks as if you might end up getting the fine(s) refunded as TFL has already been taken to court and lost over their illegal signage, this video explains more and there is a go "fund me" setup to enable this person to expand his legal suit against TFL for everyone who has paid fines. Maybe this might be extended to other similar zones that have been set up in similar cities like Coventry, Birmingham etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr2DUm1 ... rownCarGuy

mnementh wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:06 pm

mnem
well, that's one solution...

Every time I look at this video, it seems that something is wrong with it, and I've finally worked it out, the wheels appear to going in reverse to the bike's forward motion?

Is anyone still going on about this?

The press have shut up now and the guy locally with anti ULEZ stickers all over his car bought a 2012 Citroen

Yes it is still going on and TFL are getting quite a pasting over it, people pulling down cameras and blocking mobile camera vans etc. Currently, I'm OK as my car is fully complaint

Oh so criminal damage it is then. I hope they get caught.

Specmaster wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:10 pm

mnementh wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:06 pm

mnem
well, that's one solution...

Every time I look at this video, it seems that something is wrong with it, and I've finally worked it out, the wheels appear to going in reverse to the bike's forward motion?

Entropy, my man.

mnem
*toddles off to the dwagon-cave to unfuckerize a keyboard*

bd139 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:23 pm Is anyone still going on about this?

The press have shut up now and the guy locally with anti ULEZ stickers all over his car bought a 2012 Citroen

That shows the cruel and unfair nature of the ULEZ scheme. Making people drive Citrôens, it'll be Skodas and Ladas next.

Specmaster wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:05 pm Hmm, seems as if my gut feelings about this and the LEZ in London at least are not actually legal after all and that TFL are totally ignoring the law and yet expect the motorist to abide their version of the law.

Has anyone here been caught for a fine, I wonder? If so, it looks as if you might end up getting the fine(s) refunded as TFL has already been taken to court and lost over their illegal signage, this video explains more and there is a go "fund me" setup to enable this person to expand his legal suit against TFL for everyone who has paid fines. Maybe this might be extended to other similar zones that have been set up in similar cities like Coventry, Birmingham etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr2DUm1 ... rownCarGuy

Please! That TfL have fucked up a bit of signage and thus made some fines unenforceable is NOT the same as the ULEZ scheme not being legal.

Cerebus wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:35 pm

bd139 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:23 pm Is anyone still going on about this?

The press have shut up now and the guy locally with anti ULEZ stickers all over his car bought a 2012 Citroen

That shows the cruel and unfair nature of the ULEZ scheme. Making people drive Citrôens, it'll be Skodas and Ladas next.

Cerebus wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:39 pm Please! That TfL have fucked up a bit of signage and thus made some fines unenforceable is NOT the same as the ULEZ scheme not being legal.

Yes anyone who believes this, violates the rules and intentionally fights it will eventually find themselves in front of a magistrate who dislikes them.

bd139 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:40 am

Cerebus wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:39 pm Please! That TfL have fucked up a bit of signage and thus made some fines unenforceable is NOT the same as the ULEZ scheme not being legal.

Yes anyone who believes this, violates the rules and intentionally fights it will eventually find themselves in front of a magistrate who dislikes them.

The more frequently that happens, the better. By and large I'm in favour of "taxes on wilful stupidity".

Having said that, I dislike the way the ULEZ disproportionally hits the poor. People who have old cars tend to be poor and cannot afford new cars.

Add to that Crapita being responsible for administering the meagre compensation; those living in the UK will know that Crapita is one of the commercial companies the government pays to do its dirty work. The resulting "plausible deniability" is no longer plausible.

I never understood why anyone would even bother with the compensation scheme. Disposing of your vehicle on the private market always made more sense.

The people local to me, actually in London, with old cars are not poor. They are cheapskates and penny pinchers. Poor people use buses!

bd139 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:20 pm I never understood why anyone would even bother with the compensation scheme. Disposing of your vehicle on the private market always made more sense.

The people local to me, actually in London, with old cars are not poor. They are cheapskates and penny pinchers. Poor people use buses!

I assumed you got the compensation if you sold it privately. Anything else is likely to be a ripoff, pure and simple.

Where you live is a "rich" area rather than a "poor" area! Lots of desirable green areas and waterfront properties, and several ex-stately homes.

Can I suggest you ask a few less-well-off people. I did just that when my mother was alive and had private home care visits, and a local emission zone was coming along. Having bought a second-hand diesel car, she didn't know what she was going to do. No, the (well-endowed) charity that employed her wouldn't give her time to get from house 1 to house 2 on the bus[1], and wouldn't pay for a car.

The charity got out of the homecare business a few weeks before my mother entered a nursing home. Dog knows how the elderly manage now.

[1] the others allow zero time, which means you pay for half an hour and are lucky to get 15 minutes. Giving someone a meal means 5 mins to put it in the microwave oven (and clear up previous meals), then put it on the table, and exit soonest.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:04 pm

bd139 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:20 pm I never understood why anyone would even bother with the compensation scheme. Disposing of your vehicle on the private market always made more sense.

The people local to me, actually in London, with old cars are not poor. They are cheapskates and penny pinchers. Poor people use buses!

I assumed you got the compensation if you sold it privately. Anything else is likely to be a ripoff, pure and simple.

Yes definitely

tggzzz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:04 pm Where you live is a "rich" area rather than a "poor" area! Lots of desirable green areas and waterfront properties, and several ex-stately homes.

Well technically I live in Hounslow so it varies.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:04 pm Can I suggest you ask a few less-well-off people. I did just that when my mother was alive and had private home care visits, and a local emission zone was coming along. Having bought a second-hand diesel car, she didn't know what she was going to do. No, the (well-endowed) charity that employed her wouldn't give her time to get from house 1 to house 2 on the bus[1], and wouldn't pay for a car.

They use public transport here. If you are low income you get 50% off the price. If you are older than 60 you don't pay at all.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:04 pm The charity got out of the homecare business a few weeks before my mother entered a nursing home. Dog knows how the elderly manage now.

Well my mother was driving around in a Peugeot 106 and drove it into a kerb stone and wrote it off. That was not ULEZ compliant. After that she used public transport. She was not in great shape after years of fags and gin but got around, slowly.

I get your point about the elderly though. The issue is that a lot of the time if you're too frail to use public transport you should not be driving either.

I decline to comment further on people moving to the middle of bloody nowhere and wondering why there is no public transport.

Cerebus wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:35 pm

bd139 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:23 pm Is anyone still going on about this?

The press have shut up now and the guy locally with anti ULEZ stickers all over his car bought a 2012 Citroen

That shows the cruel and unfair nature of the ULEZ scheme. Making people drive Citrôens, it'll be Skodas and Ladas next.

Shut up, or we'll start shipping our Cadillac Suck-scalades and Lincoln MasterBaters over there; right on your doorstep. You lot have gotten off light with just the occasional boatload of Lincoln MiniBaters...

mnem
Oh, look... a forgotten warehouse full of Yugos...

bd139 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:11 pm

tggzzz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:04 pm

bd139 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:20 pm I never understood why anyone would even bother with the compensation scheme. Disposing of your vehicle on the private market always made more sense.

The people local to me, actually in London, with old cars are not poor. They are cheapskates and penny pinchers. Poor people use buses!

I assumed you got the compensation if you sold it privately. Anything else is likely to be a ripoff, pure and simple.

Yes definitely

tggzzz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:04 pm Where you live is a "rich" area rather than a "poor" area! Lots of desirable green areas and waterfront properties, and several ex-stately homes.

Well technically I live in Hounslow so it varies.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:04 pm Can I suggest you ask a few less-well-off people. I did just that when my mother was alive and had private home care visits, and a local emission zone was coming along. Having bought a second-hand diesel car, she didn't know what she was going to do. No, the (well-endowed) charity that employed her wouldn't give her time to get from house 1 to house 2 on the bus[1], and wouldn't pay for a car.

They use public transport here. If you are low income you get 50% off the price. If you are older than 60 you don't pay at all.

Aaargh. I was grossly unclear

Those points were about the care worker being screwed and needing to get around proto for work, not my mother. Their working conditions make Homebase seem like nirvana

Technically my mother could have driven in her 11th decade; she still had a valid driving licence. Practically she stopped a decade earlier, and only used it as photo id.

Despite having a perfect driving record since the 50s, she couldn't get insurance after my father died. She was covered by my father's insurance (comprehensive, any driver) but not named - so the insurance companies wouldn't insure an 80+yo that was unknown to them. That meant I had to become the car's owner (=>IHT), before I could drive it.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:04 pm The charity got out of the homecare business a few weeks before my mother entered a nursing home. Dog knows how the elderly manage now.

Well my mother was driving around in a Peugeot 106 and drove it into a kerb stone and wrote it off. That was not ULEZ compliant. After that she used public transport. She was not in great shape after years of fags and gin but got around, slowly.

I get your point about the elderly though. The issue is that a lot of the time if you're too frail to use public transport you should not be driving either.

I decline to comment further on people moving to the middle of bloody nowhere and wondering why there is no public transport.

As noted, I intended to make the point about the young able-bodied that care for elderly. Doh.

As for "middle of nowhere", my local city has a population >450,000 - and still has shit public transport, "courtesy" of the predatory serial-offenders Stagecoach

tggzzz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:37 pm As for "middle of nowhere", my local city has a population >450,000 - and still has shit public transport, "courtesy" of the predatory serial-offenders Stagecoach

The solution here would seem to be biological pest control. Just as one uses a native predator to cull an unwanted species (e.g. Ladybirds for aphids, and hawks for pigeons) one could use a native predator of stagecoaches: highwaymen. "Stand and deliver!"