Test Equipment Anonymous

Specmaster wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:54 pm

bd139 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:31 pm You're just getting old and shitty. Happens to all of us

You'll get there soon enough

Working on it slowly

bd139 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:00 am

Specmaster wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:54 pm

bd139 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:31 pm You're just getting old and shitty. Happens to all of us

You'll get there soon enough

Working on it slowly

Nah. You're going at the standard rate: one day per day.

Good way of thinking about it: your daily micromort expenditure, and how that varies over time.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:18 am

bd139 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:00 am

Specmaster wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:54 pm
You'll get there soon enough

Working on it slowly

Nah. You're going at the standard rate: one day per day.

Good way of thinking about it: your daily micromort expenditure, and how that varies over time.

Yes true. I religiously avoid any micromort amplifying things where possible, apart from cycling which is slightly better than walking for the same distance! It's probably safer to fly to Waitrose though...

Have come to the conclusion that using windows is 1 µMort/day at the moment

bd139 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:59 pm

tggzzz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:18 am

bd139 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:00 am

Working on it slowly

Nah. You're going at the standard rate: one day per day.

Good way of thinking about it: your daily micromort expenditure, and how that varies over time.

Yes true. I religiously avoid any micromort amplifying things where possible, apart from cycling which is slightly better than walking for the same distance! It's probably safer to fly to Waitrose though...

Have come to the conclusion that using windows is 1 µMort/day at the moment

Pretty negligible, then.

Assume life expectancy is 84years, that averages out at 36µmort/day.
For me, given my age, it would be 140µmort/day.
You are nearer me than 36µmort/day

Base jumping wouldn't be much added risk, at 430µmorts per jump.

More relevant to Windows would be the probability of it causing you to be committed to a mental institution. I haven't found that probability, but it would be far less negligible

tggzzz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:18 am

bd139 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:00 am

Specmaster wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:54 pm
You'll get there soon enough

Working on it slowly

Nah. You're going at the standard rate: one day per day.

Good way of thinking about it: your daily micromort expenditure, and how that varies over time.

That depends on your altitude; the higher you are, the faster you're moving, and the slower you age relative to someone at a lower altitude...

"Well equipped maintenance shop"

To be fair, there selection of hand tools is pretty good but in terms of test equipment, there's a dead Micronta DMM and a Greenlee that turns on and works but the batteries in it have to be 2018 or older based on when the guy who used to work here retired, so I'm glad I brought known working, familiar test equipment.

I think time dilation might be in the terms of attomorts though...

Yeah, whenever I see one of the plugs you crazy Brits put up with, I think of that scene from Casino Royale... it's worse than our dryer plugs.

mnem
Because it's everywhere... we only have one or two in the whole house.

It's an insult here too...

bd139 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:14 pm It's an insult here too...

image10421__mcNAV_mw1001.jpg

Similar for RPG people:

mnem
Hell is a New Jersey state of mind...

Currently measuring the bath for additional grab rails. I got the call from his rehab supervisor; dad is coming home next week.

mnem
"oi... can I have a wee tipple with my walker?"

The other co-worker who got shipped in on this one didn't want to take his chances with the Greenlee DMM that hasn't been used since 2018 at the most recent or the Radio Shack-issue Micronta that doesn't have any batteries in it, so he's been enjoying my Keysight U1252B. Apparently it's much more responsive and easy to handle than the one from Canadian Tire he's been using.

His home site had a Fluke 8060A when I've filled in there so either he isn't using that or the 8060A was the previous guy's personal multimeter and he took it home when he retired.

I really think he should get a Fluke or Keysight DMM authorized and purchased. This is strictly my own personal opinion but I don't think any Canadian Tire house branded multimeter should be used in the workplace, especially for live power work. Does any employer want to assume the liability for any potential workplace injuries arising from that vs. going with Fluke or Keysight and being confident in the safety ratings, and the testing and validation behind them vs. whatever Canadian Tire's buyers happened to be sourcing at the time that guy's multimeter happened to be purchased?

25 CPS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 8:56 pm
I really think he should get a Fluke or Keysight DMM authorized and purchased.

A bottom end Fluke or similar will be peanuts to anyone doing this commercially. Seconded.

Any less is pennywise and pound foolish.

mnem
don't short my shit, yo.

mansaxel wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:32 am

25 CPS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 8:56 pm
I really think he should get a Fluke or Keysight DMM authorized and purchased.

A bottom end Fluke or similar will be peanuts to anyone doing this commercially. Seconded.

Using any less for mains work only demonstrates they have no clue to what they are dealing with.

When in a trade I would occasionally lend gear to apprentices but urge them to get their own but to another tradesman, no sorry get stuffed and get your own !

tautech wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 4:05 am

mansaxel wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:32 am

25 CPS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 8:56 pm
I really think he should get a Fluke or Keysight DMM authorized and purchased.

A bottom end Fluke or similar will be peanuts to anyone doing this commercially. Seconded.

Using any less for mains work only demonstrates they have no clue to what they are dealing with.

When in a trade I would occasionally lend gear to apprentices but urge them to get their own but to another tradesman, no sorry get stuffed and get your own !

Nooooo it doesn't have to be Fluke, any decent quality brand should be more than sufficient. My Fluke 85 which is rated at 1000v Cat 3 whereas my Brymen BM867 has 1000v Cat 4 rating and also has, like the Fluke, 1000v rated cartridge fuses. Some people will bang on that for a tradesman to be accepted as a professional, then his meter has to be yellow. That I'm afraid is just a load of BS in my view, after all is not the most expensive meter that Fluke make, not red? That is the Fluke 28 II EX that is well north of £1,000 to buy?

My Brymen is also red and my Extech MG302 is Orange, 1000v Cat 3, 1,000v cartridge fuses as well as a 125, 250, 500 and 1000v insulation tester, data logger with 1,000 readings capacity, IP67 and also has wireless connection to a PC/laptop if needed.

They are all built like a bleeding tank and just like the Fluke 25/27 ranges (also in my arsenal) they can almost double up as a club hammer. You wouldn't want to be bashed on the head with anyone of them, that's for sure

So I think if anyone does not accept these meters to be bona fide professionally acceptable, that they don't have a clue and are out of touch, just saying

I'd rather have a bottom-of-the-line Fluke than the Brymen any day when doing Sparky work. All you have to do is look at the quality of the PCB and the plastic used to see that the Fluke is better across the board. Whether you can see it or not is irrelevant; I can see it.

I don't care what Joe sez; a sample size of two tested to destruction means jack-shit. When I'm dealing with potentially deadly voltages, I'm always gonna reach for the Fluke. On the bench, with low voltages, sure... use the Brymen, or even a Aneng if that's what you have handy.

mnem
No. Just NO.

Specmaster wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:35 am

tautech wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 4:05 am

mansaxel wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:32 am

A bottom end Fluke or similar will be peanuts to anyone doing this commercially. Seconded.

Using any less for mains work only demonstrates they have no clue to what they are dealing with.

When in a trade I would occasionally lend gear to apprentices but urge them to get their own but to another tradesman, no sorry get stuffed and get your own !

Nooooo it doesn't have to be Fluke, any decent quality brand should be more than sufficient. My Fluke 85 which is rated at 1000v Cat 3 whereas my Brymen BM867 has 1000v Cat 4 rating and also has, like the Fluke, 1000v rated cartridge fuses. Some people will bang on that for a tradesman to be accepted as a professional, then his meter has to be yellow. That I'm afraid is just a load of BS in my view, after all is not the most expensive meter that Fluke make, not red? That is the Fluke 28 II EX that is well north of £1,000 to buy?

My Brymen is also red and my Extech MG302 is Orange, 1000v Cat 3, 1,000v cartridge fuses as well as a 125, 250, 500 and 1000v insulation tester, data logger with 1,000 readings capacity, IP67 and also has wireless connection to a PC/laptop if needed.

They are all built like a bleeding tank and just like the Fluke 25/27 ranges (also in my arsenal) they can almost double up as a club hammer. You wouldn't want to be bashed on the head with anyone of them, that's for sure

So I think if anyone does not accept these meters to be bona fide professionally acceptable, that they don't have a clue and are out of touch, just saying

I only have experience with Agilent/Keysight and Fluke and Canadian Tire multimeters, so I can only recommend what I know. That's why I recommended he get something from Keysight or Fluke and strongly recommend against anything from Canadian Tire.

I think in one of my previous posts I did while I was shaking down equipment and pre-packing everything to make sure it was all adequately protected and fit in my luggage, I showed what I ended up deciding to take with me. In terms of test equipment, it was the Keysight U1252B and Agilent U1242A multimeters, Fluke 41B power analyzer, Agilent U1620A scopemeter counterpart after striking the Fluke 190-204 on account of it's hard case being too large and heavy and not wanting to carry it loose and striking the Agilent U1602B due to not having fully isolated inputs, plus a pair of Fluke i1010 current clamps and a line splitter. A very stripped down basic set of hand tools consisting of some various pliers and sidecutters, wire strippers, and a full set of insulated screwdrivers. Plus an assortment of test and clipleads. Unfortunately, I couldn't bring the full arsenal of portable kit with me that lives in my truck since we were flying due to distance.

I could've taken various combinations of Fluke 8060A, D802, and 27 or analogue Simpson, Tripplett, AVO meters instead of the multimeters I did take but I wanted to have the harmonic ratio function on the Agilent U1242A and the square wave generator on the U1252B available which is why those two meters out of all the handheld DMMs I have got the nod. Neither of us had been to that site before and had no idea what was available or what exactly we were going to walk into in terms of technical work. Someone else said that the "maintenance shop was well equipped" but their background is IT so I was a bit skeptical. I decided to cover as many bases as possible and made the equipment and tool selections I did due to trying to pack as much functionality into as little space and weight as possible.

Honestly, the business about the Canadian Tire multimeter was only symptomatic of a larger issue though. In the planning meetings for this trip, he said he had a kit that he takes on the road and that he was going to ship it up ahead of time. I don't know when he realized he forgot to ship it but he didn't bring it along on his flight up so the whole thing including the Canadian Tire multimeter wasn't available. That's why he ended up getting to try out my Keysight U1252B and ended up using a mix of my tools and meters and what was in the tool cabinet on site.

Specmaster wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 11:35 am That I'm afraid is just a load of BS in my view, after all is not the most expensive meter that Fluke make, not red? That is the Fluke 28 II EX that is well north of £1,000 to buy?

I was curious about this one so I looked it up. According to the Fluke website, it's temporarily unavailable:

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/int ... e-28-ii-ex

According to one of ITM's retail arms, it's discontinued:

https://www.myflukestore.ca/p14206/fe_28iiex.php

It's going to be interesting to see if that's a temporary or permanent lack of availability.

The Ragu 17B seen next to my 189 is red too... but I wouldn't use it for Sparky work any more than I'd use either of the Anengs. Certainly not for anything where it could become an explosion hazard, which is why that Fluke is so expensive; all the special sealing and spark-barriers and certification testing by 3rd parties on the design.

mnem
tzzzzzzzzt.

mnementh wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 4:42 pm I'd rather have a bottom-of-the-line Fluke than the Brymen any day when doing Sparky work. All you have to do is look at the quality of the PCB and the plastic used to see that the Fluke is better across the board. Whether you can see it or not is irrelevant; I can see it.

I don't care what Joe sez; a sample size of two tested to destruction means jack-shit. When I'm dealing with potentially deadly voltages, I'm always gonna reach for the Fluke. On the bench, with low voltages, sure... use the Brymen, or even a Aneng if that's what you have handy.

mnem
No. Just NO.

Well that is your opinion and I respect it, but having taken apart the Brymen and the Fluke and also the Extech, I can honestly say that all three are impressive in their build quality and I can 100% believe that are capable of handling the 415V 3ph sh1t that we get over which is way higher that what you have in the good ole USA. We have 220-230 at the domestic level of switches and power sockets which is your 3phase supply. Out of the 3 meters I mentioned, only the Brymen BM867 has the Cat4 rating at 1000v, the other 2 are only Cat3 at 1000v, but will gladly use any of them along with my Fluke25 and my Fluke27 on power circuits.

I also have a smaller brother to the Extech, but branded as Rapid (a large electronics company like RS in the UK) which is also rated at Cat3 1000v and Cat4 600v which is sold as a professional grade meter but I don't tend to use it much as I much prefer the size and feel of the other 3, but also like the others, it is fitted with 1000v cartridge fuses.

Went to the Milton Keynes radio rally (Hamfest) today. It was (almost) a waste of time. There were not a lot of sellers and virtually no TE. The only just about TE Igot was a handful of Greenpar inter-series coaxial adaptors. The only other thihgs tha made it not a total failure were a couple of odd connectors I've been looking for for a while, a couple of NOS analog PCBs an a deler who was giving away a load of components.
The audio boards are for military equipment. They have a bunch of socketed op-amps, NE571 companders and a whole bunch* of Vishay VSR bulk foil precision resistors and 1% film capacitors. Cost £3 for two boards.
Free NOS bits included 6000 1/4W resistors, 3M 0.1" dual row ribbon connectors, XLR plugs and a bunch of variable reluctance speed pick-ups.
*about 140 on each board