Test Equipment Anonymous

Cerebus wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:27 pm

Robert wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 6:33 pm I was looking at a part on RS today (work so won't go into details) The website did not have much information and the drawing was of a completly different type of part. The datasheet was for the range and did not cover the exact part number. So I started a support "chat" Got a fairly prompt reply seemed like a person. Answer "there are no datasheets, go ask the manufacturer"! I'd already looked on their website and again it didn't list thr exact part number (last digit of which likly specified the critical parameter I needed to know. I asked why I was paying a distributor a premium and they didn't want to get the datasheets. Was told it would take them two weeks to get the data...
This level of service is just unacceptable.
Sorry had to rant at someone....

RS have become a joke of late. I bought parts from RS when I was prototyping my GPSDO design. I'm at the stage where I'm going to spin up a proper board and 'productize' it (as much as one can 'productize' a hobby project). So I went back to RS to get the production parts. Couldn't find them, despite having the RS part numbers. Looking for alternatives I went delving and found that the part in question was still stocked, still had the same part number, just that RS are now incapable of finding it from their own part number. Finding out other parts from the same original order are also no longer apparently stocked by RS I gave up the fight and started rebuilding the BOM with Mouser part numbers. Life's too short to have to work my way around that level of incompetence.

I'm actually glad I'm doing other things at the moment. Trying to fill a basket from Farnell / RS / Rapid / whoever was an absolute chore. The sites are all utter crap, the stock levels are crap and the delivery was crap.

Cerebus wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:27 pm RS have become a joke of late.

I'm old enough to remember them as RadioSpares.

Years back I worked with someone who'd worked in a burglar alarm factory. It was not a cutting edge establishment. The last in in the morning had the Heathkit oscilloscope, as the early birds had snagged the Telequipment and Solartrons.

Some of the customers had specified that no RadioSpares parts were to be used for production or repair. They'd source a relay from RadioSpares and standing instructions were that the RadioSpares logo was to be scraped off before it was fitted.

Obviously things change, but I've never liked dealing with err, RS. or aRSe, as tggzzz affectionately calls them.

Zenith wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:30 pm

Cerebus wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:27 pm RS have become a joke of late.

I'm old enough to remember them as RadioSpares.

Years back I worked with someone who'd worked in a burglar alarm factory. It was not a cutting edge establishment. The last in in the morning had the Heathkit oscilloscope, as the early birds had snagged the Telequipment and Solartrons.

Some of the customers had specified that no RadioSpares parts were to be used for production or repair. They'd source a relay from RadioSpares and standing instructions were that the RadioSpares logo was to be scraped off before it was fitted.

Obviously things change, but I've never liked dealing with err, RS. or aRSe, as tggzzz affectionately calls them.

Radiospares 741s were infamous for having an input offset voltage that was not normally distributed. Instead it had twin peaks near the limit, and a great big trough.around zero.

If was as if reputable manufacturers were bin selecting their devices, and keeping the better ones for themselves

Nowadays that niche is occupied by Farnell's Multicomp range, and similar.

I've grudgingly bought Multicomp when there was no easy alternative. It's been mainly capacitors and resistors. I've never had any problems with them but I'd rather not use them in anything important.

bd139 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 8:35 pm I'm actually glad I'm doing other things at the moment. Trying to fill a basket from Farnell / RS / Rapid / whoever was an absolute chore. The sites are all utter crap, the stock levels are crap and the delivery was crap.

Here you go, buddy!!!

mnem
are ya feelin' tha lurrrve...?

Zenith wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:00 am I've grudgingly bought Multicomp when there was no easy alternative. It's been mainly capacitors and resistors. I've never had any problems with them but I'd rather not use them in anything important.

Oh, so have I - for things where I would never want to place a second order for the same SKU.

I Think I need a pay review.
Another project wants me for a couple of days and the project I'm supposed to be on negotiated to have 3 engineers for a week in exchange.....

Some things I've recently bought:

A Rohde & Schwarz NGL 35 PSU which I was looking for for some time:


And a Metcal MX-500P soldering station. It comes together with a soldering iron, a desoldering tweezer and the two stands:


As per DHL shipping update, the Metcal will arrive on Monday, so fingers crossed.

The pictures are from the auctions on ebay, not mine.

And another one is on its way to me:
a HP 4329A TOhm ohmmeter for 59 Euro plus shipping (7 Euro).

Picture from the ad:

Looks like I'm on the wagon again

Tek 2215A on the way. Needed something to poke around inside an HP41 printer I have which is not working properly...

bd139 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:50 pm Looks like I'm on the wagon again

Tek 2215A on the way. Needed something to poke around inside an HP41 printer I have which is not working properly...

It has the similar failure prone PSU as the 2235, correct?

If I recall correctly there were a host of problems with the 2213, 2215 etc, to the extent that Tek were accused of testing the prototype on the customer. There were problems with the PSU and another problem where the CRT heater voltage was too high causing short CRT life with models under a certain serial number. There was a mod which involves taking a half turn off a transformer to give a lower heater voltage.

I believe most of this was sorted out with the A versions.

bd139 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:50 pm Looks like I'm on the wagon again

Tek 2215A on the way. Needed something to poke around inside an HP41 printer I have which is not working properly...

I presume you are going to use the HP41 to poke around inside the Tek2215A which isn't working properly...

tggzzz wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:59 pm

bd139 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:50 pm Looks like I'm on the wagon again

Tek 2215A on the way. Needed something to poke around inside an HP41 printer I have which is not working properly...

I presume you are going to use the HP41 to poke around inside the Tek2215A which isn't working properly...

It might be more productive

Alas this is the one with the hooky power supply. It is currently shown working so we will see how much fettling it requires. I know what to touch and what not to touch now so it'll get the following treatment:

1. Replace the mains filter.
2. Replace the RIFAs on the board.
3. Check which version of the MOSFET mount / fix it has and either solder the bastard wires on or replace it.
4. Cross fingers the rest of it works.

Worst case it was cheap enough some idiot will buy it spares/repair off me after

bd139 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:31 pm Worst case it was cheap enough some idiot will buy it spares/repair off me after

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XW_OXSQSRk

bd139 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:31 pm
Worst case it was cheap enough some idiot will buy it spares/repair off me after

Depends what you were asking. I'd sport a £5 note, if it wasn't obviously tatty, all knobs present and there were a couple of probes chucked in.

Meanwhile, for what you are doing, a nice little Hameg 20 MHz number would see you all right.

BU508A wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 6:55 pm

bd139 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:31 pm Worst case it was cheap enough some idiot will buy it spares/repair off me after

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XW_OXSQSRk

Hahaha never seen that before

Edit: found the bigger idiot - buyer who paid for this! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134952393915

Zenith wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:56 pm

bd139 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:31 pm
Worst case it was cheap enough some idiot will buy it spares/repair off me after

Depends what you were asking. I'd sport a £5 note, if it wasn't obviously tatty, all knobs present and there were a couple of probes chucked in.

Meanwhile, for what you are doing, a nice little Hameg 20 MHz number would see you all right.

A 20MHz Hameg would probably do fine too. But they seem to go for more money than this crate. The positive with this is it is a hell of a lot easier to service the Tektronix one than the Hameg. Doing a capacitor replacement on a Hameg, which I have done before, is an exercise on excavation. Also the PCBs are crappy in them. If I have to complain about one thing though, the Hameg delayed timebase implementation is garbage compared to that series of Tek too. But of course you lose the component tester.

bd139 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:02 pm
A 20MHz Hameg would probably do fine too. But they seem to go for more money than this crate. The positive with this is it is a hell of a lot easier to service the Tektronix one than the Hameg. Doing a capacitor replacement on a Hameg, which I have done before, is an exercise on excavation. Also the PCBs are crappy in them. If I have to complain about one thing though, the Hameg delayed timebase implementation is garbage compared to that series of Tek too. But of course you lose the component tester.

Hamegs seem to go for silly money in Germany and high prices on ebay UK. They are solidly made and don't use special ICs and hybrids. Removing a circuit board would be a PITA, with desoldering and things using the metalwork as a heatsink. I've managed to get away without doing it so far. Generally, working on them can be a pain. I've found they don't have that many problems, mainly dirty contacts and dry joints and things that need adjusting. The reservoir capacitors were underspecified and really ought to be changed. That can be done without removing a PCB.

They had a couple of ways of implementing the second timebase/delay sweep function. Some people rave over the component tester, I've never found it useful. Apart from removing the PCBs and access in general, my gripe is that the technical documentation is lacking, with no parts lists or proper set up procedure. There were also a lot of undocumented changes, so the Hameg you have may be significantly different to the documentation you can find. Apparently this extends to replacing the linear power supply with a switcher, but there's no documentation on the SMPS.

The current patient on the operating table is a 100MHz HM1005. It's a really nice scope to use, but has a couple of irritating faults I am in the process of sorting out. Some things about it are infuriating, such as the preamp shields being soldered in place and having no holes to access the presets. Apparently, this is a very early one and the later ones do have access holes. The boards are different to the ones in the manual, and the presets are different and in different positions. You have to deduce what they do. I'll write it up when it's finished.

As those kind of scopes go, I much prefer Hitachi. I haven't had a Philips yet.

Zenith wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:26 am Hamegs seem to go for silly money in Germany and high prices on ebay UK. They are solidly made and don't use special ICs and hybrids. Removing a circuit board would be a PITA, with desoldering and things using the metalwork as a heatsink. I've managed to get away without doing it so far. Generally, working on them can be a pain. I've found they don't have that many problems, mainly dirty contacts and dry joints and things that need adjusting. The reservoir capacitors were underspecified and really ought to be changed. That can be done without removing a PCB.

They had a couple of ways of implementing the second timebase/delay sweep function. Some people rave over the component tester, I've never found it useful. Apart from removing the PCBs and access in general, my gripe is that the technical documentation is lacking, with no parts lists or proper set up procedure. There were also a lot of undocumented changes, so the Hameg you have may be significantly different to the documentation you can find. Apparently this extends to replacing the linear power supply with a switcher, but there's no documentation on the SMPS.

The current patient on the operating table is a 100MHz HM1005. It's a really nice scope to use, but has a couple of irritating faults I am in the process of sorting out. Some things about it are infuriating, such as the preamp shields being soldered in place and having no holes to access the presets. Apparently, this is a very early one and the later ones do have access holes. The boards are different to the ones in the manual, and the presets are different and in different positions. You have to deduce what they do. I'll write it up when it's finished.

As those kind of scopes go, I much prefer Hitachi. I haven't had a Philips yet.

The thing that always annoys me with the Hamegs is that they tend to use extremely short (and crap) electrolytic capacitors which leak everywhere and are difficult to find replacements for. This is obviously a large issue for some people because two Hamegs I've repaired had "too tall" capacitors epoxied to the board sideways. Annoying to deal with but it worked. The crap capacitors is the worst one. I had one of the mini single channel hameg scopes and the capacitors basically had boiled off inside it. Big clean up job.

That doesn't surprise me with the HM1005.

I rather like Philips scopes. But as always they suffer from the infernal blue-axial Philips/BC disease. My first proper scope was a PM3217. Absolutely one of the finest analogue scopes ever made. Alas the power supply is somewhat weak on them which can result in some expensive repairs being required.

bd139 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 10:39 am
The thing that always annoys me with the Hamegs is that they tend to use extremely short (and crap) electrolytic capacitors which leak everywhere and are difficult to find replacements for. This is obviously a large issue for some people because two Hamegs I've repaired had "too tall" capacitors epoxied to the board sideways. Annoying to deal with but it worked. The crap capacitors is the worst one. I had one of the mini single channel hameg scopes and the capacitors basically had boiled off inside it. Big clean up job.

That doesn't surprise me with the HM1005.

I rather like Philips scopes. But as always they suffer from the infernal blue-axial Philips/BC disease. My first proper scope was a PM3217. Absolutely one of the finest analogue scopes ever made. Alas the power supply is somewhat weak on them which can result in some expensive repairs being required.

The reservoir caps are 1000µF, 25V and 220µF 100V??, both 20mm high. I recall they are Cosmonic brand, which I've never seen in anything else. There's only 5mm of clearance. A 25mm high cap will just fit, but it's uncomfortably tight. Caps of that height are available, but it's a further restriction. I haven't come across one that's leaked, but they are notorious for playing up, and I've had a few that have. In most cases they can be accessed from the side, without removing a PCB. I've never done a full recap on a Hameg. There are also small 10µF caps in the power supplies which fail and cause ripple at MHz. That happened in one of the Hamegs I've had and it wasn't accessible. I couldn't face removing the PCB, so I cut off the old cap leaving its wires, and soldered the new cap to them.

I must look out for a Philips. I see them around, but the stars have never been in the right alignment to buy one.

Most of the scopes I buy plain don't work, or have obvious faults, and the seller either can't or can't be bothered to fix them. I've yet to come across a real dud that was a surprise, with a show stopper such as a bad transformer or CRT. It doesn't make any sense to pay a lot for them. It's pleasing when they can be made to work properly.

Zenith wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:00 pm Most of the scopes I buy plain don't work, or have obvious faults, and the seller either can't or can't be bothered to fix them. I've yet to come across a real dud that was a surprise, with a show stopper such as a bad transformer or CRT. It doesn't make any sense to pay a lot for them. It's pleasing when they can be made to work properly.

My first 465 had a subtly bad CRT: dog knows how but an internal connection had sprung loose.

I learned a lot about CRT HV components, circuits, and faultfinding before I finally extracted the CRT and found the problem (and a new household ornament ).
https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com ... x-465-crt/

Memo to self: twiddle the site settings to prevent LLMs reusing my content.
https://www.osnews.com/story/138659/tum ... ys-report/
EDIT: done.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:10 pm

Zenith wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:00 pm Most of the scopes I buy plain don't work, or have obvious faults, and the seller either can't or can't be bothered to fix them. I've yet to come across a real dud that was a surprise, with a show stopper such as a bad transformer or CRT. It doesn't make any sense to pay a lot for them. It's pleasing when they can be made to work properly.

My first 465 had a subtly bad CRT: dog knows how but an internal connection had sprung loose.

I learned a lot about CRT HV components, circuits, and faultfinding before I finally extracted the CRT and found the problem (and a new household ornament ).
https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com ... x-465-crt/

The internal metal work in CRTs is nickel spot welded together, just like in radio valves. The spot welding might be dodgy but the CRT could still pass factory testing. It's not hard to imagine a scope having a mechanical shock, such as standing on its end and being knocked over, which would leave no outward signs of damage but would shake the CRT severely and break a questionable weld.

I'm surprised I haven't seen a lot more CRT and EHT faults.

Zenith wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 1:40 pm

tggzzz wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:10 pm

Zenith wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:00 pm Most of the scopes I buy plain don't work, or have obvious faults, and the seller either can't or can't be bothered to fix them. I've yet to come across a real dud that was a surprise, with a show stopper such as a bad transformer or CRT. It doesn't make any sense to pay a lot for them. It's pleasing when they can be made to work properly.

My first 465 had a subtly bad CRT: dog knows how but an internal connection had sprung loose.

I learned a lot about CRT HV components, circuits, and faultfinding before I finally extracted the CRT and found the problem (and a new household ornament ).
https://entertaininghacks.wordpress.com ... x-465-crt/

The internal metal work in CRTs is nickel spot welded together, just like in radio valves. The spot welding might be dodgy but the CRT could still pass factory testing. It's not hard to imagine a scope having a mechanical shock, such as standing on its end and being knocked over, which would leave no outward signs of damage but would shake the CRT severely and break a questionable weld.

I'm surprised I haven't seen a lot more CRT and EHT faults.

Understood. Nonetheless, given how soft and malleable the pins are, I was surprised that there was such a large gap between the grid pin and the grid. Since the CRT was working in all respects other than being a torch, I doubt there was a major shock. That leaves the soft pin acting acting as a spring under a "lot" of tension.

bd139 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:50 pm Looks like I'm on the wagon again

Tek 2215A on the way. Needed something to poke around inside an HP41 printer I have which is not working properly...

You'll need to keep it company with a 2225. Auction on Saturday, collect from Bedford. I got my HP8562B spec an from there
https://www.i-bidder.com/en-gb/auction- ... 25011cecd7