Test Equipment Anonymous

Zenith wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 1:26 pm

Specmaster wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 1:16 pm There are plenty of issues with Tesla's and most pure EV's.

I don't find myself gagging to buy one.

I think there'll be serious back peddling on the ICE ban. It's certainly looking very ambitious.

I certainly don't want any car where driving controls are on a touchscreen, e.g. heating and ventilation. Nor any which have (worse require/presume) voice control.

Prediction: plug-in hybrids will be classified as not-ICE.

Good luck in West London: you can't even attach a new house to the grid, given the transmission capacity constraints. That's a political problem, in spades EV charging? In your dreams.

The politicians claim you can connect, but if you read this document (of theirs) you had better be very careful to understand what is not being said. E.g. p17, snipped almost to the point of changing what is being said...

Some stakeholders are interested in knowing whether
there is available headroom within UKPN’s distribution
network, which borders West London and services other
areas of the city.
...
However, the [Greater London Authority] discourages developments within
SSEN’s geography from seeking to connect to UKPN’s
network given...

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default ... 202024.pdf

bd139 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:05 am I concur on all accounts. Also you can’t just jump it from another car. There is a secondary 12v battery but if that’s dead too it’s a brick. I did some reading though and this is not the case on newer Tesla vehicles though. 2018 vintage was stupid. Well more stupid anyway.

If the high voltage battery goes into standby mode then all the things that drain the high voltage battery so quickly switch over to the secondary 12V battery. You can imagine how long that lasts until it hits 0% SOC and the brickage happens. Back of fag packet: 60kWh battery discharging at 1%/day => 600Wh/day. Aux 12V 720Wh battery, assume 100% SOC, gives you about 28 hours between "Main battery hits 0%" and "bricked".

tggzzz wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 1:55 pm
I certainly don't want any car where driving controls are on a touchscreen, e.g. heating and ventilation. Nor any which have (worse require/presume) voice control.

To rub salt into it as well, Tesla latest model has IRCC also removed the column stalks so the D-N-R selector is a up and down swiping action on the screen and the indicators stalk has now made its way to becoming 2 push buttons on the steering wheel which also means, I think, you have to cancel them manually. Also seeing as they are mounted on the wheel, you have to look at the wheel when you want to operate them because as the wheel is turned, they go round with the wheel.

bd139 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:05 am
I concur on all accounts. Also you can’t just jump it from another car. There is a secondary 12v battery but if that’s dead too it’s a brick. I did some reading though and this is not the case on newer Tesla vehicles though. 2018 vintage was stupid. Well more stupid anyway.

It's not just EVs!
My son had a VZ model Holden Commodore.

Holdens had a really good reputation for reliability for decades, but the dead hand of Detroit reached out to stuff that up

As a wonderful new way of improving fuel consumption & overall emissions, their local minions replaced the standard alternator with one that ran intermittently.
This was supposed to be sufficient to keep the battery "topped up"-------it wasn't!!!

One morning, he went out to his car, & it was dead--no start, no sign of ignition, NADA!
All good, he grabbed my battery charger, charged the battery overnight & got the thing to start---no problem!
Actually, bloody BIG problem, as the car alternator still did not charge enough to keep up with the discharge rate, so back to "dead".

It turns out that the battery used with the intermittent alternator system uses a special chemistry & won't charge properly from a trickle charger, so the recommended method if you have a flat battery is to have your Commodore towed to a dealer who has the requisite "magic" charger to recharge it, all at huge expense.
You could pay a King's ransom & buy a special charger of your very own, but these were frowned on by both Holden & the battery maker, in "the best interests of the consumer (previously known as valued customers)", of course!

Probably not a special charger but a reset of the battery mangement system. These systems use a small sensor on the battery connector to montor charge / discharge. If you charge the batttery by other means it upsets the controller causing all sorts of weird issues.

Robrt.

Specmaster wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:37 pm

tggzzz wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 1:55 pm
I certainly don't want any car where driving controls are on a touchscreen, e.g. heating and ventilation. Nor any which have (worse require/presume) voice control.

To rub salt into it as well, Tesla latest model has IRCC also removed the column stalks so the D-N-R selector is a up and down swiping action on the screen and the indicators stalk has now made its way to becoming 2 push buttons on the steering wheel which also means, I think, you have to cancel them manually. Also seeing as they are mounted on the wheel, you have to look at the wheel when you want to operate them because as the wheel is turned, they go round with the wheel.

I might be able to tolerate the DNR (oops ) being on a touchscreen; I'd have to see it to determine. The indicator controls must be in a fixed position.

Makes me want to go and have a Tesla test drive. I'd be in the passenger seat so I could see how "well" an experienced user can/can't change things, and to watch how the car was self-driving on rural and pothole ridden roads.

In general I hate GUIs that - on a whim and because they know what's best for me - move controls around and/or hide them. WinXP was fine. WinFlattieFinger and WinRibbon are appalling.

Fortunately Xfce has one nice old-fashioned WinXP style taskbar.

DWIM was hated, for good reasons. Tablet autocorrupt manglers are useful for the illiterate peasants who only use crap input devices for trivial purposes.

Bah humbug.

Robert wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 5:51 am Probably not a special charger but a reset of the battery mangement system. These systems use a small sensor on the battery connector to montor charge / discharge. If you charge the batttery by other means it upsets the controller causing all sorts of weird issues.

Robrt.

I only have the word of what the Holden Dealer told my son, & that of the several hundred other people whinging on the Internet about the same situation.
The "after market" suppliers all emphasised the high current capabilities of their charger.
Perhaps the sensor is internal to the battery, rather than in the connector in the case of the VZ Commodore, so that if it sees a higher rate charge it is happy.
It is still a ridiculous idea.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 9:55 am
I might be able to tolerate the DNR (oops ) being on a touchscreen; I'd have to see it to determine. The indicator controls must be in a fixed position.

Makes me want to go and have a Tesla test drive. I'd be in the passenger seat so I could see how "well" an experienced user can/can't change things, and to watch how the car was self-driving on rural and pothole ridden roads.

In general I hate GUIs that - on a whim and because they know what's best for me - move controls around and/or hide them. WinXP was fine. WinFlattieFinger and WinRibbon are appalling.

Fortunately Xfce has one nice old-fashioned WinXP style taskbar.

DWIM was hated, for good reasons. Tablet autocorrupt manglers are useful for the illiterate peasants who only use crap input devices for trivial purposes.

Bah humbug.

In most of the early to mid 1950s British cars the "Trafficator" switch turned with the wheel, & people used them OK.

I have a delightful thing which happens with my ASUS laptop, where the keyboard gets things wrong if you type at normal speeds---"Trafficator" in the above sentence was rendered as "Frajjicator", & "delightful" in this sentence as "dekightful".
It loses & adds letters as well, but the best one is when it gets all the letters right, but in the wrong order.

It is a fairly nice laptop apart from that & the fact it has taken a dislike to Chrome---Firefox is OK----go figure!

vk6zgo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 12:03 pm

tggzzz wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 9:55 am
I might be able to tolerate the DNR (oops ) being on a touchscreen; I'd have to see it to determine. The indicator controls must be in a fixed position.

Makes me want to go and have a Tesla test drive. I'd be in the passenger seat so I could see how "well" an experienced user can/can't change things, and to watch how the car was self-driving on rural and pothole ridden roads.

In general I hate GUIs that - on a whim and because they know what's best for me - move controls around and/or hide them. WinXP was fine. WinFlattieFinger and WinRibbon are appalling.

Fortunately Xfce has one nice old-fashioned WinXP style taskbar.

DWIM was hated, for good reasons. Tablet autocorrupt manglers are useful for the illiterate peasants who only use crap input devices for trivial purposes.

Bah humbug.

In most of the early to mid 1950s British cars the "Trafficator" switch turned with the wheel, & people used them OK.

The nearest I saw to that was a 3-position knob on the dashboard, left-off-right. The knob stayed in one place; it didn't move in 1ft radius circles when you changed direction!

They also knew how to double-declutch. I do, but it isn't something I'd want to go back to.
They also had seat belts. The only time I haven't had them was when I owned a 1959 Series II Landie. That had the standard indicator stalk firmly attached to the steering column, not the dashboard (and not the steering wheel!).

I am having a little trouble getting used to a new keyboard emitting spurious characters. That's because I've previously used 1980s IBM/HP keyboards, which needed thumping[1], and my fingering is too heavy and imprecise.

[1] not really. But ASR33 keyboards really needed thumping.

It is enlightening to watch old 1960s TV programmes, to see just how empty the roads were back then.

It will be a cold day in hell before I'll own a hybrid or EV. The 2013 CR-V has enough menu driven BS to keep me suitably pissed off. But at least it's gas with an automatic transmission that I've come to terms with and usually doesn't annoy me. I'll always be old school. Gas engine with 3 pedals which is obviously manual shift. Clear analog gauges and manual HVAC controls.

I'm with Mike in this - I prefer an odd number of pedals (unless it's a flying machine, then they should be in multiples of two), and knobs & levers to control things. 'Soft' controls and touch screens have no place in a vehicle (certainly not beyond the radio, where I'll grudgingly accept them for some functions) - I want to be able to find the control by feel, without taking my eyes off the road.

I also like my test gear to have as few menus as is practical - oscilloscopes especially should have knobs or switches for everything; I don't care if it makes the front panel look like a forest. Too many times on digital scopes I've tried to adjust something only to find I'm in the wrong menu so instead of channel two's vertical range I'm adjusting channel one's trigger level or something similarly at odds with what I want.

-Pat

Cubdriver wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:52 pm

I also like my test gear to have as few menus as is practical - oscilloscopes especially should have knobs or switches for everything; I don't care if it makes the front panel look like a forest. Too many times on digital scopes I've tried to adjust something only to find I'm in the wrong menu so instead of channel two's vertical range I'm adjusting channel one's trigger level or something similarly at odds with what I want.

-Pat

Ain't that the truth. Every time I go to use the Siglent SDS1052L I'm fumbling with the menus to get the parameters I want. I suppose if I used it on a daily basis it would become 2nd nature. On the other hand using something like the 2465 I power it up, set my parameters, and I'm off to the races.

MED6753 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 4:19 pm

Cubdriver wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:52 pm

I also like my test gear to have as few menus as is practical - oscilloscopes especially should have knobs or switches for everything; I don't care if it makes the front panel look like a forest. Too many times on digital scopes I've tried to adjust something only to find I'm in the wrong menu so instead of channel two's vertical range I'm adjusting channel one's trigger level or something similarly at odds with what I want.

-Pat

Ain't that the truth. Every time I go to use the Siglent SDS1052L I'm fumbling with the menus to get the parameters I want. I suppose if I used it on a daily basis it would become 2nd nature. On the other hand using something like the 2465 I power it up, set my parameters, and I'm off to the races.

Not necessarily There will always a be the danger of concentrating on something here, and grabbing the control there without looking.

Different tactile sensations, finger positions, and even shoulder/elbow positions are immensely useful feedback.

Then there's the issue of not realising there is a relevant tweak, because it is hidden three levels deep.

As usual, Douglas Adams was ahead of the game..

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/40705- ... eventually

Another dumb feature on many gas engines is the auto stop/start. Do you think for one minute that auto makers went to a heavy duty starter to compensate for all that abuse? On some vehicles you can disable it. My brother has a Jeep with a bypass switch. But you must press the bypass every time you initially start the engine because it defaults back to auto stop/start. I know someone who has a Chevy where you cannot disable it unless the A/C is on. Or if the hood is open which assumes that the engine requires maintenance. So drive around with the hood unlatched. But I'll bet the ECM will throw some stupid code.

Ok one for the data hoarders here.

I just inherited 24TB (!) of disks full of shit. This is going to be a miserable slog to get through as there is family stuff in there

Please don't leave this shit for other people when you drop dead!

There's a reason house clearance companies can be profitable This is merely a variant of that. Memo to self: get back to deciding which of my parent's photos can be tipped.

Hopefully mostly videos!

Copy the stuff you want, mark it as interesting and then pass it to others to do the same?

If they can't be arsed then that gives you freedom to do the same.

I do believe that I am now a house clearance company. His widow has just pretty much thrown his entire office at me to "do with what I see fit" as she doesn't know what any of it is and doesn't care. She's a (wisely) mostly analogue individual.

Some good points there - perspective very much appreciated.

I did find some TE, albeit fairly basic. There is a working Fluke 83 and an Antex XS25 soldering iron. Both will be disposed of via the usual channel as I have 5 perfectly good DMMs and a Metcal

bd139 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:32 pm Ok one for the data hoarders here.

I just inherited 24TB (!) of disks full of shit. This is going to be a miserable slog to get through as there is family stuff in there

Please don't leave this shit for other people when you drop dead!

Why not? There are such things as mischevious wills, which might involve people squabbling for ever over nothing much, or involve unpleasant penances to get the prize. It could be a puzzle they have to solve. It was a thing in the Victorian age. Actually, leaving a mischevious will could be a fun way of telling people what you really think of them. There's no one I'm close to I detest so much.

Without that, there's usually a load of shed load of shit to be sorted through when people cash their chips in, even if you weren't close.

Zenith wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 10:06 pm

bd139 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:32 pm Ok one for the data hoarders here.

I just inherited 24TB (!) of disks full of shit. This is going to be a miserable slog to get through as there is family stuff in there

Please don't leave this shit for other people when you drop dead!

Why not? There are such things as mischevious wills, which might involve people squabbling for ever over nothing much, or involve unpleasant penances to get the prize. It could be a puzzle they have to solve. It was a thing in the Victorian age. Actually, leaving a mischevious will could be a fun way of telling people what you really think of them. There's no one I'm close to I detest so much.

Without that, there's usually a load of shed load of shit to be sorted through when people cash their chips in, even if you weren't close.

If you have unpleasant relatives, set up the will so they have to agree on how to divide parts of the will. Phrases like "I leave my jewellery equally to X and Y, to be divided as they see fit" can come in useful.

If you want to piss someone off, don't omit them from the will since that will allow them to challenge its validity. Instead specifically name them and leave them a low value item (brownie points for ensuring they don't want it )

You could bequeath them a quid, I suggested to my cousin that he bequested in his will that his ex-wife she should receive £1, a feather, and sausage (with a description of what that was) so she couldn't say she had been left without a sausage, a feather to fly with, or without a pound to her name. His new wife thought that was horrible.

You could bequeath someone an AK47 and a thousand rounds, and a kg of cocaine. You can, of course, refuse a bequest.

Zenith wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 10:52 pm You can, of course, refuse a bequest.

Yes indeed. I seriously considered it, and partially implemented it Has to be done within 2 years of the benefactor's death.

That enabled me to give sproglet some much needed money without any inheritance tax liability.

Can I bequest to my ex, since she got a portion of my retirement pension, that she go shit in her hat?

MED6753 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 10:58 pm Can I bequest to my ex, since she got a portion of my retirement pension, that she go shit in her hat?

I escaped that penalty on, quite literally, the last hour of the last day it was possible. My lawyer hand-delivered the relevant piece of paper to her lawyer.

You could bequest her the hat, but not her shit.

MED6753 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 10:58 pm Can I bequest to my ex, since she got a portion of my retirement pension, that she go shit in her hat?

Of course you could, and she could ignore it and no one would know. A will is to distribute your goods when you are gone, and directing along the way that she should go shit in her hat, is an irrelevant aside. The point of a mischievous will is that the recipient is shown a prize of apparently great worth and is forced to face embarrassment, or other trials, to get it. The ultimate mischief is that the prize would be worth nothing or be a liability.

Being in possession of an AK47 and a thousand rounds, and a kg of cocaine, would get you 15 years in the slammer in the UK, but had you such means to be disposed of on your demise, and bequeathed it to someone you had reason to not particularly like, it wouldn't be an automatic ticket to them doing a few years porridge.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 11:05 pm You could bequest her the hat, but not her shit.

You can only bequest things you have title to. I might bequeath the Eiffel Tower to someone when I snuff it, but since I very clearly have no claim to it, it would be ridiculous. Her shit is definitely outside those bounds and its generally a thing you have to pay to dispose of anyway. "Her hat" I'd guess was was not an item of dispute during the divorce and very few hats sell new for more then $500.

It was a figure of speech.