Test Equipment Anonymous

In similar vein to the brake/stop light video problems, it also turns out that indicators can also be problematical and cause some real issues and this folks is supposed to be progress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z5A-COlDPk

Why would I give a rat's ass if my turn signals don't sync with any surrounding vehicles as long as I USE them?

And yes, most American vehicles have the red stop lights perform double duty as turn signals. But since the center rear brake light has been a requirement since 1986 and does NOT flash what's the safety issue? The issue is driver inattention and distraction.

MED6753 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 5:59 pm Why would I give a rat's ass if my turn signals don't sync with any surrounding vehicles as long as I USE them?

And yes, most American vehicles have the red stop lights perform double duty as turn signals. But since the center rear brake light has been a requirement since 1986 and does NOT flash what's the safety issue? The issue is driver inattention and distraction.

I have often noticed how often, from pure happenstance, that my turn signals are in sync with the car in front of, or behind me.
There is absolutely no advantage in this, it is just something weird that happens.

Australian, & seemingly, British cars prior to the mid/late 1950s (that had turn flashers at all), normally had red flashers at the rear & white ones at the front.
I say "seemingly", because all the Brit cars made prior to that which I saw were all in Australia.
I know Mk1 Ford "Zephyr 6" cars also had the "brake lights which double as turn flashers" setup.

There were still a lot of cars with no turn indicators at all on the road, so it made more sense to retrofit them with additional amber flashers, rather than mess with the brake lights.
It followed that new cars also required amber turn signals.

The Holden FE model came out in 1956 with red flashers & optional white reversing lights.
When the "facelift" FC model was introduced in '59, they just made the "reversing light" lens amber instead & put the flashers in there.
It still had white front flashers, though. ----they hung around in later models up till the 1970s!

vk6zgo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:35 am Australian, & seemingly, British cars prior to the mid/late 1950s (that had turn flashers at all), normally had red flashers at the rear & white ones at the front.
I say "seemingly", because all the Brit cars made prior to that which I saw were all in Australia.
I know Mk1 Ford "Zephyr 6" cars also had the "brake lights which double as turn flashers" setup.

There were still a lot of cars with no turn indicators at all on the road, so it made more sense to retrofit them with additional amber flashers, rather than mess with the brake lights.
It followed that new cars also required amber turn signals.

The Holden FE model came out in 1956 with red flashers & optional white reversing lights.
When the "facelift" FC model was introduced in '59, they just made the "reversing light" lens amber instead & put the flashers in there.
It still had white front flashers, though. ----they hung around in later models up till the 1970s!

Nope, that was just you Australians that the red and white flashers, we Brits had amber all the time, I think the early cars may look like they were white, due to the lenses being white but the were fitted with amber bulbs, more likely for cost reasons, they probably had mountains of white lenses to use up they made the bulbs amber. Later on when they started styling cars more, they introduced different light clusters at the front for each model of car so they then switched over to amber lenses and white lenses for the turn indicators and side lights respectively.

Specmaster wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:04 pm

vk6zgo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:35 am Australian, & seemingly, British cars prior to the mid/late 1950s (that had turn flashers at all), normally had red flashers at the rear & white ones at the front.
I say "seemingly", because all the Brit cars made prior to that which I saw were all in Australia.
I know Mk1 Ford "Zephyr 6" cars also had the "brake lights which double as turn flashers" setup.

There were still a lot of cars with no turn indicators at all on the road, so it made more sense to retrofit them with additional amber flashers, rather than mess with the brake lights.
It followed that new cars also required amber turn signals.

The Holden FE model came out in 1956 with red flashers & optional white reversing lights.
When the "facelift" FC model was introduced in '59, they just made the "reversing light" lens amber instead & put the flashers in there.
It still had white front flashers, though. ----they hung around in later models up till the 1970s!

Nope, that was just you Australians that the red and white flashers, we Brits had amber all the time, I think the early cars may look like they were white, due to the lenses being white but the were fitted with amber bulbs, more likely for cost reasons, they probably had mountains of white lenses to use up they made the bulbs amber. Later on when they started styling cars more, they introduced different light clusters at the front for each model of car so they then switched over to amber lenses and white lenses for the turn indicators and side lights respectively.

Remember, I date from when Brit cars had "trafficators" or zilch!
I doubt that Ford Oz would have specially sourced Mk1 Zephyr red lights if they had amber ones available.

vk6zgo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 12:37 am

Specmaster wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:04 pm

vk6zgo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 12:35 am Australian, & seemingly, British cars prior to the mid/late 1950s (that had turn flashers at all), normally had red flashers at the rear & white ones at the front.
I say "seemingly", because all the Brit cars made prior to that which I saw were all in Australia.
I know Mk1 Ford "Zephyr 6" cars also had the "brake lights which double as turn flashers" setup.

There were still a lot of cars with no turn indicators at all on the road, so it made more sense to retrofit them with additional amber flashers, rather than mess with the brake lights.
It followed that new cars also required amber turn signals.

The Holden FE model came out in 1956 with red flashers & optional white reversing lights.
When the "facelift" FC model was introduced in '59, they just made the "reversing light" lens amber instead & put the flashers in there.
It still had white front flashers, though. ----they hung around in later models up till the 1970s!

Nope, that was just you Australians that the red and white flashers, we Brits had amber all the time, I think the early cars may look like they were white, due to the lenses being white but the were fitted with amber bulbs, more likely for cost reasons, they probably had mountains of white lenses to use up they made the bulbs amber. Later on when they started styling cars more, they introduced different light clusters at the front for each model of car so they then switched over to amber lenses and white lenses for the turn indicators and side lights respectively.

Remember, I date from when Brit cars had "trafficators" or zilch!
I doubt that Ford Oz would have specially sourced Mk1 Zephyr red lights if they had amber ones available.

Ditto, that must put you in the same age bracket as myself then, I was born in 1949 and I found this online which explains in detail about the fitting of flashing indicators onto British cars.

The fitting of flashing indicators at manufacture was not covered by the UK Vehicle (Construction & Use) and the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations applicable at that time.

"It wasn't until May1956 that the legislation was amended to allow for the fitting and use of flashing indicators for new cars registered after the end of 1958. The new regulation stated that: "The three new standards to be enforced will be: direction indicators should be amber in colour; they should neither exceed nor fall below a certain standard of brightness, and if they are of the fore and aft flashing type they should be quite separate from other lights."

Where to start
Like most drivers of ‘Sevens’ I recognised that modern, high speed, motorists are not used to slow historic vehicles with semaphore signalling or the use of hand-signals, so I investigated the legal aspects of fitting flashing indicators, rear reflectors and a rear fog lamp, to my Big Seven. The specific information required was on minimum and maximum distances from the sides of the car and height from the ground, but other information would be useful.

Confusion arises for owners of pre-war vehicles because sources state that for vehicles first used before 1 September 1965 direction indicators may be incorporated with stop lamps, or combined with side or rear lamps. This actually means that they can be fitted in a cluster of lights, generally at the front and rear corners.

As flashing indicators had never been fitted to pre-war and immediate post-war vehicles, nor deemed to be legal, prior to the 1956 amendment of the Regulations it is not possible to justify that they could be retro-fitted to vehicles of those eras. This was confirmed when seeking information as I was advised that if flashing indicators were not original equipment when the vehicle was built, and are now being fitted by choice of the owner/driver, then they are an optional fitting and have to comply with current legislation and not to try and rely on retrospective legislation, which has since been superceeded, or did not apply at the time of vehicle manufacture.

Now that vehicles manufactured pre-1960 are no longer subject to a compulsory annual (UK) MoT test any optional lighting once fitted will still be part of a voluntary MoT test and must work, there being a few exceptions. The MoT Inspection Manual is relevant and can be viewed at www.ukmot.com/1-5.asp#Text_top"

I think the first British car to be fitted as standard with them was the 1956/7 Austin A35 as the photos show had the separate lights at back and front, I have fond memories of being taken for ride in one of them, new from the showroom by a family friend. Then came my very first car, a 1959 Hillman Minx which I brought from a work colleague in 1967 and that the type of lights that were combined into the same fitting but different bulbs and colours.