Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

The place to be when you have TEA. Discuss all kinds of test equipment.

Important: Use tags for the type of equipment your topic is about.
Forum rules
Use tags for the type of equipment your topic is about. Include the "repairs" tag, too, when appropriate. If a new tag is needed, request one in the TEAdministration forum.
tggzzz
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:17 pm

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tggzzz »

Cerebus wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 6:26 pm
bd139 wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 7:38 am I think the EU are "having enough of that shit" at the moment. Hopefully it'll catch.
Not the EU but Euro NCAP, who have added physical controls for certain things to the next version (2026) of NCAP testing. So you can't get a top safety rating for your vehicle unless it has real indicators etc. There's no regulatory clout behind this, not yet anyway.
This doesn't mention the indicator lights, only the indicator controls. I'd like to see (literally) a few cars' flashing lights improved.
As of January 2026, this safety regulator is introducing new rules that will require the vehicles it assesses to have physical controls for basic functions to receive the maximum five-star safety rating. This means that cars will need to use buttons, dials or stalks for hazard warning lights, indicators, windscreen wipers, SOS calls and the hooter or horn.
This will no doubt be an issue for many car manufacturers, which have increasingly introduced more functions on their touchscreen interfaces – not least of all because they’re more cost effective to produce than physical buttons and dials.
“The overuse of touchscreens is an industry-wide problem, with almost every vehicle maker moving key controls onto central touchscreens, obliging drivers to take their eyes off the road and raising the risk of distraction crashes,” said Matthew Avery, director of strategic development at Euro NCAP, to The Times
https://eandt.theiet.org/2024/03/05/new ... al-buttons
mansaxel
Posts: 234
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:52 am

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by mansaxel »

Robert wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:47 am Standard light designs, often from component makers like Lucas were used on many different cars.
And there was Darkness.
User avatar
vk6zgo
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:29 am

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by vk6zgo »

Cerebus wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 5:53 pm
bd139 wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 3:36 pm
Cerebus wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 12:42 pm

The downside, compared to using it in two pedal mode, is that you lose control of your brake light as a deliberate signal and you don't know how enthusiastic the car is in putting the brake light on for what would be in a conventional setup mild engine braking. In some EVs it can result in your brake lights flickering as if you're a jumpy idiot who keeps hopping between brake and accelerator - something which I take as a warning sign when I notice drivers doing it.
Meh don't drive up my arse and don't find out :lol:
It's got nothing to do with driving up anybody's arse but about what you're communicating to other drivers - brake lights are as much a signal as indicators are. Use them well and you help other drivers, badly and you confuse them (and some are bloody easy to confuse). I don't like the idea of abrogating control of them to the car.
Back in the day, we drove manual gearbox cars, & the mantra was "The essence of driving with a manual is to be in the right gear at all times".
To this end, when, for instance, we were stopping for a red traffic light, we would change down through the gears, so that if the light went green, we would be in the correct gear to drive smoothly away, & if we had to stop would be in first gear when it went green.

People were prepared for cars to slow down without brakelights appearing, so didn't "run up your bum".
Over time, with the proliferation of automatics, people need the crutch of seeing brakelights at all times, so last time I regularly drove a manual, I found myself deliberately making light applications of the brakes---just enough to turn the brakelights on, so as not to be rear ended.

Another really weird thing has happened, where driving instructors teach students of manuals to slow with the brakes on the "bollocksy" premise that "brakes are cheaper than gears" (how often did people fix their gears back in the day?)
As a result we get people slowing right down & stopping in top gear, which sort of works for a traffic light that stays red, but if it goes green before they have stopped, they either scrabble around trying to change down multiple gears, or go lurching off in top.
Meanwhile the auto drivers are "just about in their back seat".
User avatar
vk6zgo
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:29 am

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by vk6zgo »

mansaxel wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 10:48 pm
Robert wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 9:47 am Standard light designs, often from component makers like Lucas were used on many different cars.
And there was Darkness.
Sealed beams were just about the only thing that Lucas couldn't stuff up! :)
User avatar
MED6753
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:02 pm
Location: Middletown, NY USA

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by MED6753 »

vk6zgo wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 1:02 am
Back in the day, we drove manual gearbox cars, & the mantra was "The essence of driving with a manual is to be in the right gear at all times".
To this end, when, for instance, we were stopping for a red traffic light, we would change down through the gears, so that if the light went green, we would be in the correct gear to drive smoothly away, & if we had to stop would be in first gear when it went green.
Correct.
vk6zgo wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 1:02 am People were prepared for cars to slow down without brakelights appearing, so didn't "run up your bum".
Over time, with the proliferation of automatics, people need the crutch of seeing brakelights at all times, so last time I regularly drove a manual, I found myself deliberately making light applications of the brakes---just enough to turn the brakelights on, so as not to be rear ended.
In the land of the lazy automatics have reigned supreme for over 50 years. I have known both men and women even my age who have never learned to shift a manual gearbox and the thought of trying it frightens them. Conversely I have taught a few new drivers the proper techniques for driving a manual gearbox and they actually enjoyed it.

vk6zgo wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 1:02 am Another really weird thing has happened, where driving instructors teach students of manuals to slow with the brakes on the "bollocksy" premise that "brakes are cheaper than gears" (how often did people fix their gears back in the day?)
As a result we get people slowing right down & stopping in top gear, which sort of works for a traffic light that stays red, but if it goes green before they have stopped, they either scrabble around trying to change down multiple gears, or go lurching off in top.
Meanwhile the auto drivers are "just about in their back seat".
Yep, that's total BS. I have always rev matched and downshifted to lessen brake wear. Proof? I've done the front brakes of the Civic at 75k miles and 150k miles. Rear brakes at 105k miles. Did I cause needless wear on the clutch? Nope. I had the clutch disc done at 195k miles "just because". I old disc was still good and not contacting the rivets.
An old gray beard with an attitude. I don't bite.....sometimes :twisted:
User avatar
bd139
Posts: 984
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:29 pm
Location: AWOL

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by bd139 »

I broke more gearboxes than brakes in London. YMMV :lol:
User avatar
bd139
Posts: 984
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:29 pm
Location: AWOL

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by bd139 »

EV update.

So charging is dead easy as anticipated. Tap your contactless card on the instavolt lump preauthing £45, plug the CCS cable into the car and off it goes. This is at Syon Park chargers so I’m going to go in Lakeland and buy a sieve and get some coffee. Will be done in 40 mins.
tggzzz
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:17 pm

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tggzzz »

bd139 wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 8:17 am EV update.

So charging is dead easy as anticipated. Tap your contactless card on the instavolt lump preauthing £45, plug the CCS cable into the car and off it goes. This is at Syon Park chargers so I’m going to go in Lakeland and buy a sieve and get some coffee. Will be done in 40 mins.
That's pleasingly sane.

So what's all this stuff I hear about people getting to a charging station and then having to download an app before they can use it?
User avatar
MED6753
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:02 pm
Location: Middletown, NY USA

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by MED6753 »

bd139 wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 8:17 am EV update.

This is at Syon Park chargers so I’m going to go in Lakeland and buy a sieve and get some coffee. Will be done in 40 mins.
What's a "sieve"? Any definition I can find is a tool for straining liquids, etc. Must be a unique English term perhaps?
An old gray beard with an attitude. I don't bite.....sometimes :twisted:
tggzzz
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:17 pm

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tggzzz »

MED6753 wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 12:13 pm
bd139 wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 8:17 am EV update.

This is at Syon Park chargers so I’m going to go in Lakeland and buy a sieve and get some coffee. Will be done in 40 mins.
What's a "sieve"? Any definition I can find is a tool for straining liquids, etc. Must be a unique English term perhaps?
"Lakeland" is a kitchen shop, originally online and now with bricks and mortar. So you are right!
https://www.lakeland.co.uk
User avatar
AVGresponding
Posts: 317
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:30 pm
Location: The Yorkshire

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by AVGresponding »

MED6753 wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 12:13 pm
bd139 wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 8:17 am EV update.

This is at Syon Park chargers so I’m going to go in Lakeland and buy a sieve and get some coffee. Will be done in 40 mins.
What's a "sieve"? Any definition I can find is a tool for straining liquids, etc. Must be a unique English term perhaps?
That's what it is. A very fine griddle, mostly used for sifting flour in baking, stuff like that.

Image
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
User avatar
Cerebus
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:19 pm
Location: Palinau

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by Cerebus »

Of course there are also garden sieves:


Image

Molecular sieves:


Image

And the prime number sieve:

Image
tggzzz
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:17 pm

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tggzzz »

Cerebus wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 4:28 pm Of course there are also garden sieves:

Molecular sieves:

And the prime number sieve:
Don't forge the pen-sieve. They don't stock them at Lakeland, though.
tggzzz
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:17 pm

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tggzzz »

Close to TE, for a change.

Prototyping small outline ICs with logically and physically "nearby" SMD components can be a pain. These protoboards look well thought through.

They have space to components that logically “surround” an IC, including decoupling capacitors, random components, and dedicated locations for optional components “near” the IC pins. There is also a vestigial ground plane with a place for a scope probe’s ground lead. It may be worth “mutating” some of the uncommitted pads on the underside into a pseudo ground plane.

Image
Image

https://www.jnewcomb.com/
User avatar
bd139
Posts: 984
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:29 pm
Location: AWOL

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by bd139 »

tggzzz wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 8:50 am
bd139 wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 8:17 am EV update.

So charging is dead easy as anticipated. Tap your contactless card on the instavolt lump preauthing £45, plug the CCS cable into the car and off it goes. This is at Syon Park chargers so I’m going to go in Lakeland and buy a sieve and get some coffee. Will be done in 40 mins.
That's pleasingly sane.

So what's all this stuff I hear about people getting to a charging station and then having to download an app before they can use it?
They do exist but are easily avoidable. Generally the app based ones are there to facilitate energy trading so for example you can bill to your normal home electricity provider and get a discount. They are operated like fuel cards. If you’ve seen the billing and trading infrastructure behind them you will know it’s a shit show.

On a lighter note I’m buggering off on holiday 🥳
User avatar
Cerebus
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:19 pm
Location: Palinau

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by Cerebus »

A while back I made some adapter boards for SOIC 14 and 16 chips with room to add decoupling capacitors. Not as ambitious as above, but it removed the frustration of decoupling these ICs on a breadboard with huge long leads to the decoupling caps.
_DSF0208.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
tggzzz
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:17 pm

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tggzzz »

Cerebus wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 1:02 pm A while back I made some adapter boards for SOIC 14 and 16 chips with room to add decoupling capacitors. Not as ambitious as above, but it removed the frustration of decoupling these ICs on a breadboard with huge long leads to the decoupling caps.
I don't know why most of the manufacturers don't include two pads for decoupling capacitors. I suspect they and their customers are too ignorant.

As for solderless breadboards; too much stray capacitance and inductance for my taste. Manhattan rulez, because avoiding having a groundplane requires an ingenious damn fool!
tautech
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:24 am
Location: Auckland NZ
Contact:

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tautech »

tggzzz wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 3:40 pm
Cerebus wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 1:02 pm A while back I made some adapter boards for SOIC 14 and 16 chips with room to add decoupling capacitors. Not as ambitious as above, but it removed the frustration of decoupling these ICs on a breadboard with huge long leads to the decoupling caps.
I don't know why most of the manufacturers don't include two pads for decoupling capacitors. I suspect they and their customers are too ignorant.

As for solderless breadboards; too much stray capacitance and inductance for my taste. Manhattan rulez, because avoiding having a groundplane requires an ingenious damn fool!
Back in the day they just did it different.
It was normal to have some additional bulk capacitance on long rails and on daughter or remote boards. Sure you decoupled IC's locally but there was no need for additional bulk capacitance near each IC unless it was particularly power hungry.
Siglent Distributor NZ, TE Enabler
tggzzz
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:17 pm

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tggzzz »

tautech wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 11:25 pm
tggzzz wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 3:40 pm
Cerebus wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 1:02 pm A while back I made some adapter boards for SOIC 14 and 16 chips with room to add decoupling capacitors. Not as ambitious as above, but it removed the frustration of decoupling these ICs on a breadboard with huge long leads to the decoupling caps.
I don't know why most of the manufacturers don't include two pads for decoupling capacitors. I suspect they and their customers are too ignorant.

As for solderless breadboards; too much stray capacitance and inductance for my taste. Manhattan rulez, because avoiding having a groundplane requires an ingenious damn fool!
Back in the day they just did it different.
It was normal to have some additional bulk capacitance on long rails and on daughter or remote boards. Sure you decoupled IC's locally but there was no need for additional bulk capacitance near each IC unless it was particularly power hungry.
Decoupling isn't the issue. The problem is the inductance of the leads and capacitance between the strips. In TAoE x-Chapters Horowitz and Hill dryly note one example problem with a very simple circuit :) I like TAoE x-Chapters since their dry humour is apparent in many places. I suspect they have relaxed and treated the book more like an advanced in-person lecture series than the more formal TAoE.

Apart from that, times have changed and technology has moved on. Well, when I say decoupling isn't the issue, that's not really true any longer. There is a problem with modern jellybean logic and the lead inductance between the logic and a decoupling capacitor.

Back in the (70s) days 74/74LS transition times were ~10ns. Even in the mid 80s there were insoluble problems with some 74F octal buffers on pukka PCBs. Modern jellybean logic transition time is <1ns; I've measured ~250ps into 150ohms.

Do the calculation of a 5V step into a 100ohm transition line with a 1ns transition time and 20mm ground lead. You'll find the voltage induced (V=Ldi/dt) across that lead is 1V. If there are two outputs switching (or a 50ohm line) it would be 2V. Good luck getting reliable non-pattern sensitive operation with that.
User avatar
bd139
Posts: 984
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:29 pm
Location: AWOL

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by bd139 »

bd139 wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 7:43 am On a lighter note I’m buggering off on holiday 🥳
Back!

IMG_0527.jpeg

---------

Normal service now resuming. There's a trick with the SOIC prototypes. The corner pins are usually power so you flip 'em upside down or lift the legs up and solder a 0805 / 1206 from the pin to ground and just wire that up to whatever source.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
BU508A
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:40 am

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by BU508A »

bd139 wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 7:41 pm
bd139 wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 7:43 am On a lighter note I’m buggering off on holiday 🥳
Back!


IMG_0527.jpeg
So, finally you fell in love with a pineapple?
:D
User avatar
vk6zgo
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:29 am

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by vk6zgo »

BU508A wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:18 am
bd139 wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 7:41 pm
bd139 wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 7:43 am On a lighter note I’m buggering off on holiday 🥳
Back!


IMG_0527.jpeg
So, finally you fell in love with a pineapple?
:D
They are hard to love when you are continually getting the rough end of them! :D
User avatar
bd139
Posts: 984
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:29 pm
Location: AWOL

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by bd139 »

Hey she was full of rum, just how I like 'em! :lol:
User avatar
AVGresponding
Posts: 317
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:30 pm
Location: The Yorkshire

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by AVGresponding »

Anyone has any insights or knowledge of what's happening with the K04BB site?
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
tggzzz
Posts: 1250
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:17 pm

Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

Post by tggzzz »

AVGresponding wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 10:40 am Anyone has any insights or knowledge of what's happening with the K04BB site?
There's a lot of chatter around on the obvious newsgroups and forums.

Most hopeful indication is that the site has been near capacity, apparently for some while.
Post Reply