Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

[mnementh]

Your mention of the Quangsheng brand prompted me to actually do a little Gurrgling on them, something I've been "gonna do" for a while now. Looks like these little Chinesium nipple-warmers have advanced quite a bit since I bought my 'feng; much better display, FM/AM/SSB modes, and this one even has a (slow and buggy, but largely functional) SA function in it. Damn.

mnem
fuck, I'm old.

My first handheld ham radio (Chinese or anything else)was a Quansheng.
It was a nice, honest little 2m radio, but eventually the battery croaked & the cost of a new batt was nearly as much as the radio originally cost.
I "languished" without a handheld radio for a while, till I picked up a secondhand Baofeng at the local Hamfest for $A40, about $A20 less than the E Bay ones.
To my dismay, the "mute" didn't turn off, so it was pretty useless.
It seems there are different generations of that particular model, & the previous owner had tried to clone it to an earlier version, which is a "no-no".
A couple of Hamfests later, I picked up an old Yaesu FT411, which, after I ditched the ancient dead Nicads & "temporarily bodged in" some rechargable NIMH batts, works fine, & is much more versatile.

Yeah, evidently those who regulate/enforce these things haven't caught up with the 'shengs yet. Might make rebuilding the batt on your old one worthwhile. I picked up a FT-60 at my last swapmeet; it was DOA and did not respond to my tenderest ministrations...

mnem

Yaesu FT-60.jpg

[25 CPS]

If the result would be safe to use, consider using some of the plastic solvents to repair the crack.

The cracked back panel's the lesser of the broken parts - the big problem is the broken jaw. Unfortunately, when it broke, it didn't break cleanly, enough material was lost when the plastic crumbled that it doesn't look easy to glue or fuse back together. I might try to do that if I can't get replacement parts since it's already broken anyways and nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I would invoice the fucker for it

Condolences, my friend. I tend to agree with @bd139; I'd bill the fuckwit.

I've found some kinds of sprays actually chemically attack plastics commonly used in meters and hand/power tools, particularly silicone lubricants vs some kinds of filled plastic and polycarbonate. I don't know if it's the carrier or the propellant... I just know I have suffered this very misery myself as well, and there is no fixing short of encasing the entire thing in epoxy, as the embrittlement is everywhere the chemical came in contact.

mnem

I was surprised how quickly the meter broke. The guy stopped spraying when I yelled at him for blasting my meter and he handed it to me and I wiped it off with paper towels. It looked like it survived but the jaw crumbled and back broke within a few minutes. I don't know if it was chemically attacked or it was thermal shock from the temperature of the spray exiting the can, possibly both, but within minutes it was broken.

Total carelessness. Spraying the backup controller wasn't even necessary to begin with since the problem he was working on didn't involve the backup controller. This was total carelessness and nothing more, and this has been a longstanding issue at that museum; that's one of the reasons why one of my friends there asked the other friend who was with me that day and I to help them out a number of years ago, because they were having problems like this.

And I completely agree with you guys about invoicing them for it. I don't know how this is going to work given it's a volunteer non-profit. As it stands, I've withheld paying my membership dues for now since they're are a small fraction of what a replacement meter is going to cost if I have to go down the road of getting a replacement. As it stands, I have a ticket open with Keysight to try and get replacement parts but progress on that has been in fits and bursts. We'll see what ends up happening. We'll see how expensive it is when it's all said and done and then I'll as the guy/museum if they can chip in on the costs since it came down to sheer carelessness with my equipment after asking to borrow it to take a battery charging current measurement.

Whatever does end up happening, whether its repair or replacement, I'm not lending out my tools to anyone at any railway museum ever again. I'm even reluctant to set up to take measurements with other people working on the same car because of the possibility of someone nearby damaging equipment while they're working on something unrelated. I think the tools and test gear are for my use only and I'm only working on any given car when nobody else is working on it at the same time, not just for the safety of the tools and equipment but for my personal safety as well. 600V power feeds, moving mechanical equipment, moving vehicles, all are dangerous and clearly the problem with sheer carelessness has persisted and I can't take safety for granted.

[25 CPS]

Some miscellaneous bench puttering around the last few days.

I also had a nasty surprise at home when I got back from that trip. There was a small water leak from shutoff valve for the toilet when it's closed and it dribbled down to the basement and got some stuff wet. Nothing got damaged though. The biggest casualty was a small cardboard box but the contents were fine since they were still in plastic and the power cord for the Sangamo Type F watt-hour meter got a bit wet. I let that dry out for a few days and took it apart for a visual inspection of the internals. The dampness never got further than the outer jacket on the power cord and the watt hour meter measures the same as it did before. But in doing the visual inspection, I discovered this nasty splice inside:





That thing that looks like heat shrink tubing is actually a fibrous tube that's actually rigid and it fell off easily, plus the cloth insulation around the splice was pretty badly frayed so I decided to clean it up and then seal it with heat shrink tubing.



I ended up going with the next size down after test fitting a couple of sizes. It's reassembled now. The plan for testing this is to run the bench lighting through the Type F. That's about 300 watts of incandescent light to provide power consumption for it to record but it's going to take a bit of moving power cords around and at least one extension cord to get the lamps plugged into the single socket the Type F so that's set aside for another day.

At various times, I've had alkaline batteries strike and make messes of wireless weather station receivers. Not one or two, but three of the things have accumulated and the battery compartment damage was beyond filing corroded contacts down so I started tossing around the idea of connecting external battery holders if they still worked. The first order of business was to see if the battery leak damage was confined to the battery holders or if the weather station displays got completely ruined.





A bench power supply was fed across one Hewlett-Packard 3478A to observe voltage and through the other to observe current draw then to a set of alligator clip leads that were made to bite through the corroded contacts in each of the weather station receivers to test them out.



All three worked so I'll get some external battery holders and disassemble these to tack some wires onto the circuit boards and then run them out the back through existing holes. I also did a little bit of general cleanup and preparation on a couple of different test setups. One some insulation testing and the other to begin the RF investigation on my truck.

Speaking of insulation testing, I had that out at the railway museum too but never posted a picture of that:



This was to verify that the auxiliary heating circuit didn't have any carbody grounds or resistive shorts to ground. Whatever failed burned completely open before blowing the fuse that was in that holder. The heat hasn't worked in ages. I rode on that car a couple of times in winter before it ended up in the museum and I honestly don't think the heat worked then. People would throw the switch on the dashboard and the little indicator light would come blazing to life but nothing much would happen even though they'd swear the heat was on. I always thought it wasn't doing much of anything and I had been meaning to check it out for years. I was originally going to last March but it was so warm, they were turning the heat off in all the cars so that fell through. This visit, I was able to confirm it dead. Switching the aux heat on and seeing the indicator lamp come on was a mix of placebo effect plus a bit of heat recovered from the propulsion system's resistors as the car was being run which was enough to convince people it was actually working.

[Robert]

I've also seen some plastics react badly to even normally "safe" solvents. One notable one was the insulation on some expensive screw loxkin high pin count DIN connectors. Solvent was "plastic safe" non-CFC spray cleaner. We ere using that on sensitive plastics like ABS and polystyrene with no issues. It had no apparent effect on on the plastic a few minutes later it just crumbled. The plastic was a filled nylon. The effect was worse in parts that may have had either internal or external stress. Sort of like a plastic version of intergranular stress corrosion you see in some metal alloys. This was probably at the filler / matrix (plastic) boundaries.
Looks like the meter is similar with damage at the jaw hinge and rear cover attachment screw.

Robert,

[bd139]

Had a test and measurement day out today!

Kirkaldy Testing Museum in Southwark. Not quite electronics but they had some strain gauges and Tinsley bridges lying around. I'll not write up too much as there's a perfectly good Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkaldy_Testing_Museum ... the tour is recommended and Colin, chief expert is really nice and will explain everything about the machinery and history. A good afternoon out.

Photos attached

IMG_5121.jpeg

Sign outside

IMG_5120.jpeg

Best motto I've seen for years

IMG_5118.jpeg

Camilla breaking things - she is slightly obsessed with engineering which is a good thing these days. Not many are. She studied classics and regretted it

IMG_5115.jpeg

Chain breaking test machine

IMG_5112.jpeg

Concrete and aggregate testing area.

687cb56b-13ac-4e58-bdbd-fd0b7f0f178e.jpeg

Demonstration in progress.

I've persuaded them to go to TNMOC as well.

[tggzzz]

Best motto I've seen for years

That's as good as "numbers not adjectives".

On second thoughts, nowadays I might prefer "opinions not alternative facts"

Demonstration in progress.

... the tour is recommended and Colin, chief expert is really nice and will explain everything about the machinery and history. A good afternoon out.

I've persuaded them to go to TNMOC as well.

It seems to be an annual pilgrimage, so I'll probably end up there yet again after https://dunstabledownsradioclub.org/bootsale/ on 18th May 2025. Zenith might be there as well. Take a (or someone else's) car, and offload heavy stuff.

I won't have to drool over TNMoC's Fuller calculators any more, but I'll still be able to point to too many of the exhibits and say "got/had one". The WITCH is always good to watch, the ICL 2970 mainframe is a useful frame (ho ho) of reference. I usually end up discussing the schematics of the first computer I used in anger; interesting on a macro level (39 bit 2kIPS, "Joe 90" 35mm magnetic film tapes etc), and micro scale (e.g. how to make a or/nor/and/nand gate with only one transistor (a Ge OC42).

Camilla breaking things - she is slightly obsessed with engineering which is a good thing these days. Not many are. She studied classics and regretted it

Don't despair: Tony Hoare studied classics. You may have heard of him: CSP (think Go / xC / Occam), quicksort, his billion dollar mistake, Turing award lecture, and the Algol60 compiler in the 803.

And note the surprising number 2 in https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zrfknk7

[bd139]

On second thoughts, nowadays I might prefer "opinions not alternative facts"

Whenever someone draws a distinction on those matters I remind them that alternative facts are just lies.

It seems to be an annual pilgrimage, so I'll probably end up there yet again after https://dunstabledownsradioclub.org/bootsale/ on 18th May 2025. Zenith might be there as well. Take a (or someone else's) car, and offload heavy stuff.

I will be making a pilgrimage there. Since I last posted I've been volunteered to organise the bloody trip. At least I know what most of the stuff is!

I won't have to drool over TNMoC's Fuller calculators any more, but I'll still be able to point to too many of the exhibits and say "got/had one". The WITCH is always good to watch, the ICL 2970 mainframe is a useful frame (ho ho) of reference. I usually end up discussing the schematics of the first computer I used in anger; interesting on a macro level (39 bit 2kIPS, "Joe 90" 35mm magnetic film tapes etc), and micro scale (e.g. how to make a or/nor/and/nand gate with only one transistor (a Ge OC42).

So much good stuff in there. My "computing antiquity" is somewhat less primitive but is in there too. Can't wait to get my hands on it again

Don't despair: Tony Hoare studied classics. You may have heard of him: CSP (think Go / xC / Occam), quicksort, his billion dollar mistake, Turing award lecture, and the Algol60 compiler in the 803.

And note the surprising number 2 in https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zrfknk7

Yes Hoare's work on CSP inspired a number of things at work. Alas I'm the only person who even remotely understands it. Job for life (assuming we don't go any further down the shitter).

As for classics, there's something similar going on here but the other way around...

On the desk...

IMG_5134.jpeg

The bookshelf has accumulated quite a few related things.

And went for a little amble last weekend (again) to fill in some gaps (one reason I'm barely here any more). Couple of photos (out of about 1000)...

DSC_0901.jpg

DSC_1746.jpg

Managed to cram in 3 and a bit days: Rome; capitoline museum, vatican museum again. Worst train ride ever to Naples. Then Herculaneum, Museo Archeologico Nazionale di Napoli, Pompei again. Oh and lots of good pizza, coffee and pastries.

Still not done...

And as Cerebus pointed out afterwards, I broke another place after Iceland too: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgkm8dxky82o

[mnementh]

A visit from @bd139: the gift that keeps on giving.

mnem
we can't take you any-fucking-place...

[tggzzz]

On second thoughts, nowadays I might prefer "opinions not alternative facts"

Whenever someone draws a distinction on those matters I remind them that alternative facts are just lies.

It seems to be an annual pilgrimage, so I'll probably end up there yet again after https://dunstabledownsradioclub.org/bootsale/ on 18th May 2025. Zenith might be there as well. Take a (or someone else's) car, and offload heavy stuff.

I will be making a pilgrimage there. Since I last posted I've been volunteered to organise the bloody trip. At least I know what most of the stuff is!

Just so, and excellent respectively.

Yes Hoare's work on CSP inspired a number of things at work. Alas I'm the only person who even remotely understands it. Job for life (assuming we don't go any further down the shitter).

Summary: simultaneously good and bad.

Never underestimate the perverse stupidy of newly-arrived seagull managers.

As for classics, there's something similar going on here but the other way around...
On the desk...

I've just loaded the two Alice books onto my Kindle. Project Gutenberg has allowed me to load many other classics as well. Useful if trapped somewhere.

Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations is informative: much of the modern guff emitted by the Adam Smith Institute think tank doesn't correspond with Adam Smith!

No, I've never bought any book or Kindle from Amazon, so they can't remotely take them away. My Kindles are "unclaimed goods", from auction houses near a big airport. Also get lots of penknives for sale

Managed to cram in 3 and a bit days: Rome; capitoline museum, vatican museum again. Worst train ride ever to Naples. Then Herculaneum, Museo Archeologico Nazionale di Napoli, Pompei again. Oh and lots of good pizza, coffee and pastries.

Still not done...

And as Cerebus pointed out afterwards, I broke another place after Iceland too: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgkm8dxky82o

I've been keeping an amused eye[2] on the Phlegraean Fields for a while, and showed the article to daughter since she intends to go there later in the year.

In 1980 I travelled from Naples to Brindisi, through Basilicata. Three days later the Potenza earthquake killed 3400.

In 2004 daughter and I were backpacking through Tamil Nadu and Kerala. If we had stayed another week we would have been in Alleppy when the tsunami struck.[1]

Conclusion: never follow me on holiday.

[1] I've occasionally wondered if Arthur C Clarke would have saved me if I had been on a Thailand beach then. In his excellent novel Childhood's End there is a scene where the sea rapidly recedes causing Karellen to whisper in the ear of an important child and tell him to get off the beach before the tidal wave arrives.

[2] "the inhabitants of the area, Pozzuoli in particular, were witness to and victims of a phenomenon where the earth's surface rose; within a few months it had risen by a total of 3.5 m. " https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/campi-flegrei.html

[Robert]

I'll be at Dunstable Downs (again). It's come around quickly. Haven't decided if I'm going to sell or not. Good place for transfers though if anyone wants heavy stuff. I've got VNAs (HP 8753B & 8754s) Collins 618T, maybe a 8920A, R&S PSM, Odetics GPSDO etc.

Robert.

[tggzzz]

I'll be at Dunstable Downs (again). It's come around quickly. Haven't decided if I'm going to sell or not. Good place for transfers though if anyone wants heavy stuff. I've got VNAs (HP 8753B & 8754s) Collins 618T, maybe a 8920A, R&S PSM, Odetics GPSDO etc.

Robert.

Good, and no I don't want them. Honest.

It is almost worth paying the fee for a pitch simply to avoid the hike across fields and through woods to.from the car park

[Zenith]

I hope Dunstable Downs is back on form. Last year it couldn't be run in it's usual May slot and was delayed until June. It was a bit disappointing.

[tggzzz]

I hope Dunstable Downs is back on form. Last year it couldn't be run in it's usual May slot and was delayed until June. It was a bit disappointing.

I expect the general hamfest malaise will continue.

Nonetheless some continue to be worth visiting. This year two I like (FRARS, Rugby) appear to be on the same day, grrrrr.

[mnementh]

Yeah, the Summer Swapmeet at VRCMCT is April 12th... I should be able to make that one. Time to pick some sacrifices and make a bit of room...

mnem
*tzzzzzzzt.*

[tggzzz]

Time to pick some sacrifices and make a bit of room...

Useful phrase.

Depending on mood, the concept is either or

[Zenith]

I expect the general hamfest malaise will continue.

Nonetheless some continue to be worth visiting. This year two I like (FRARS, Rugby) appear to be on the same day, grrrrr.

Grrrrrh indeed. Rugby is a more pleasant drive up the Fosse Way, but I've found it variable in terms of treasures. It's getting noticeably smaller.
FRARS is bigger and I've found better pickings, although I've picked up some good things at Rugby, particularly components.

Telford strikes me as getting bigger.

[tggzzz]

I expect the general hamfest malaise will continue.

Nonetheless some continue to be worth visiting. This year two I like (FRARS, Rugby) appear to be on the same day, grrrrr.

Grrrrrh indeed. Rugby is a more pleasant drive up the Fosse Way, but I've found it variable in terms of treasures. It's getting noticeably smaller.
FRARS is bigger and I've found better pickings, although I've picked up some good things at Rugby, particularly components.

Telford strikes me as getting bigger.

... and excellent if you wanted Tek 7k mainframes and plugins. Which definitely and positively don't.

Yeah. I think I'd pick FRARS, because the general area is nicer.

But it is a pleasant drive along a single straight ancient track (except for a few miles). The left-pondians might not find the concept of a straight road notable, and might not understand the concept of "ancient", but it is satisfying.

[Robert]

FRARS used to be my local rally but I haven't attended for many years. To far to go.

[Zenith]

... and excellent if you wanted Tek 7k mainframes and plugins. Which definitely and positively don't.

I've never been slightly attracted to them, however for the price they were marked down to at the end - I recall £10 a pop, and then they wouldn't shift - I wonder if they would have been worth snapping up for the hard to find components, obscure transistors, and diodes. I bet they've been taken to the dump.

[25 CPS]

I guess this is a final update on the clamp meter.

A bit of back and forth with Keysight. In the first email they said the back cover's available but couldn't find the jaw. I replied with the jaw and part number from the parts list on their website and they emailed back saying it's unavailable and can't be ordered, but there was a quote attached. I figured the quote would be for the back panel that had been discussed in the earlier emails so I was surprised when I opened it and discovered that it was a quote replacement battery door, which had never come up at all.

Since the broken jaw isn't replaceable, this meter is a writeoff. One of my friends has a 3D printer and has tossed the idea around of trying to print a replacement jaw and transplant the iron pieces. If we can make it happen and it works, great, but it's definitely not something I'm going to count on so I'm going to look at getting a replacement of some kind.

This has left me disappointed in so many ways. One with the guy who broke it. And second, that two years into the seven year support sunset this is the parts situation. I'm also baffled how I ended up getting quoted for a battery door that was never discussed at all. This doesn't bode well for anyone needing support for Keysight's handheld instruments especially as time passes further into that seven year post-discontinuation support period from here on in.

This brings up the whole issue of what a replacement of some kind is going to be. I'm debating on one hand getting a used/old stock/open box clamp meter like for like to keep my existing Agilent/Keysight wireless test suite completely intact. On the other hand, given Keysight exiting the business, I'm also debating getting a similar spec Fluke clamp with Fluke Connect and migrating over to that as equipment gets turned over since it's a viable product line and deal with having a split system for the foreseeable future.

I did talk on the phone with the friend I was with when this happened about asking for compensation for the destroyed meter and the whole issue of "non-profit volunteer organization" came up. I'm not sure how to approach the subject given that. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

[Zenith]

This organisation is bound to have insurance. Try that angle.

Try ebay, which might either produce a used replacement, or a similar model that uses the same jaws, or a parts only meter with good jaws.

3D printing seems a possibility.

Keysight sounds shambolic, especially for a company selling into the professional market.

[tggzzz]

Since the broken jaw isn't replaceable, this meter is a writeoff. One of my friends has a 3D printer and has tossed the idea around of trying to print a replacement jaw and transplant the iron pieces.

The question I would have is which material to use.

I'm not a fan of home printing where strength might be relevant, especially if there is might be a torque straining the joints between layers. The clamp force might cause such strain in a jaw piece.

In my ignorance, I would think that commercial fabrication using, say, nylon wouldn't have that problem.

[mnementh]

In this case it'll be a bit drawn-out, I'd wager. My experience with 3DP suggests this process:

1: Get parts to a nerd-friend who 3DPs. Bring lots of favorite food/alcohol.
2: Brainstorm a design in Frustion3D; print it.
3: Get close; redesign, print again.
4: repeat step 3 n times, where n = point that you're satisfied enough with results not to bother any more attempts.
5: Come back next day, move on to next part. Repeat steps 1-5 n iterations. Bring Vodka and BBQ ribs this time.
6. Once you have parts that work, send design to JLC3DP.com; get parts in sintered Nylon for $15-30.
8. Wait a week.
7. Rejoice!!! that you have your meter back to hold and to cherish. And vow never to go down this rabbit-hole again.
8. Until next time...


mnem
Yes, I can be arsed if you'd like to try.

[25 CPS]

In this case it'll be a bit drawn-out, I'd wager. My experience with 3DP suggests this process:

1: Get parts to a nerd-friend who 3DPs. Bring lots of favorite food/alcohol.
2: Brainstorm a design in Frustion3D; print it.
3: Get close; redesign, print again.
4: repeat step 3 n times, where n = point that you're satisfied enough with results not to bother any more attempts.
5: Come back next day, move on to next part. Repeat steps 1-5 n iterations. Bring Vodka and BBQ ribs this time.
6. Once you have parts that work, send design to JLC3DP.com; get parts in sintered Nylon for $15-30.
8. Wait a week.
7. Rejoice!!! that you have your meter back to hold and to cherish. And vow never to go down this rabbit-hole again.
8. Until next time...


mnem
Yes, I can be arsed if you'd like to try.

No. If my friend wants to play around with his unused 3D printer, that's great, but no, we're not going to heroic lengths over a clamp meter.

This organisation is bound to have insurance. Try that angle.

Try ebay, which might either produce a used replacement, or a similar model that uses the same jaws, or a parts only meter with good jaws.

They do but the deductible's probably the same as a replacement meter, if not more, so I'm reluctant to ask them to claim it that way. There's also a second non-profit that's been involved with that museum so what I'm thinking about doing is asking if either can help chip in on the replacement costs for that meter once that becomes known. eBay's most likely going to be how I get an exact replacement assuming I don't begin migrating to Fluke for a replacement current clamp.

One of the co-worker's just reached over to my desk and ransacked my personal screwdriver set. So now I'm the tool and equipment supplier at the day job as well. This has gotten very old, very fast.

[mnementh]

As for the larger issue surrounding the whole shitty mess... yeah, it's a shitty mess. As has been mentioned; "volunteer" shitty mess.

It sucks, but I think this is a "pick your battles" scenario.

You're probably best off treating it as a life lesson about working with dumbasses and moving on... no matter how tactful you may be aboot it, trying to extract fair recompense will make you "the asshole" in somebody's eyes, and with something you do purely for R&R, I expect that will spoil the whole thing for you in the long run.

If it hasn't already been so spoiled.

Cheers,

mnem

. . . . Peace be with you, brother.