Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

[bd139]

It is nice, isn't it Most occupations seem to have such slang in-jokes that aren't used in other circumstances.

Given the minuscule amount of force necessary to move the stick, the concept of bending it is unthinkable.

I always assumed it meant the same as it does in model aircraft - you've slammed the stick all the way to the stops and still pulling.

That's why I grudgingly forced myself to learn to be a "pinch flyer".

Basically, yes, that's what it means. For beginners, however, it refers to their tendency to rotate too early/hard to get away from the dangerous hard stuff.

Pinch flying a glider is also possible, but normally you don't - especially during a winch launch where you need to pull back the stick with a little force.

What you won't feel in an R/C model is that as you fly slower and closer to the stall point[1] then there is less airflow over the control surfaces. That not only makes the stick feel very light and disconnected but also increases the chance that you will reach the stick's endstop because the aircraft hasn't responded enough to your input. You are taught to feel the stick "waving around in the breeze" then wake up and go faster.

[1] in a weak thermal you get best lift by flying just above the stall (and spin!) point. In a strong thermal you are banking at 70degrees, pulling 3G, and feeling your jowls move towards your feet.

Sounds like hell. Would rather have a couple of CFM56's shoving me along.

At least if you do something wrong it indicates to you verbally that you're a retard.

[tggzzz]

I always assumed it meant the same as it does in model aircraft - you've slammed the stick all the way to the stops and still pulling.

That's why I grudgingly forced myself to learn to be a "pinch flyer".

Basically, yes, that's what it means. For beginners, however, it refers to their tendency to rotate too early/hard to get away from the dangerous hard stuff.

Pinch flying a glider is also possible, but normally you don't - especially during a winch launch where you need to pull back the stick with a little force.

What you won't feel in an R/C model is that as you fly slower and closer to the stall point[1] then there is less airflow over the control surfaces. That not only makes the stick feel very light and disconnected but also increases the chance that you will reach the stick's endstop because the aircraft hasn't responded enough to your input. You are taught to feel the stick "waving around in the breeze" then wake up and go faster.

[1] in a weak thermal you get best lift by flying just above the stall (and spin!) point. In a strong thermal you are banking at 70degrees, pulling 3G, and feeling your jowls move towards your feet.

Sounds like hell. Would rather have a couple of CFM56's shoving me along.

At least if you do something wrong it indicates to you verbally that you're a retard.

Don't need to be told anything in a glider. If you do something wrong in a glider one of three things happens: it gets very quiet (and the stick waves around), or the horizon moves fast upwards and/or in circles[1], or you feel like the HHGttG's bowl of petunias. If you can't take that hint, you've merely improved the species. As for being told where to go... ha ha ha[2].

Having said that, I do remember seeing an arrival which almost reached the runway. Apparently the conversation just before that between two highly rated instructors was "Are you flying this thing" "No, I thought you were". Or watching an instructor at the end of a race spin in from 200ft - and walk away.

As for hell...
Anything with a ducted fan on the wings == a cruise liner. (My idea of hell on earth: Hotel Shopping Mall California with norovirus and people you don't want to talk to).
Anything with an open fan in front == a car. (Pictures move past the windows. You have difficulty staying awake)
Anything without an engine == a bicycle (It becomes part of you and you move through the scenery. You continually sense through the seat of your pants what you are going to be able to do)

[1] familiar airplane and airfield, but not at 2800ft. (1:06 long)

More interesting to start at 1000ft. It is a standard way of losing altitude fast. (0:24 long)

[2] Good luck ATC Go on, count them if you can (2:40 long, but don't watch it all!)

[bd139]

Sounds like hell. Would rather have a couple of CFM56's shoving me along.

At least if you do something wrong it indicates to you verbally that you're a retard.

Don't need to be told anything in a glider. If you do something wrong in a glider one of three things happens: it gets very quiet (and the stick waves around), or the horizon moves fast upwards and/or in circles[1], or you feel like the HHGttG's bowl of petunias. If you can't take that hint, you've merely improved the species. As for being told where to go... ha ha ha[2].

Having said that, I do remember seeing an arrival which almost reached the runway. Apparently the conversation just before that between two highly rated instructors was "Are you flying this thing" "No, I thought you were". Or watching an instructor at the end of a race spin in from 200ft - and walk away.

As for hell...
Anything with a ducted fan on the wings == a cruise liner. (My idea of hell on earth: Hotel Shopping Mall California with norovirus and people you don't want to talk to).
Anything with an open fan in front == a car. (Pictures move past the windows. You have difficulty staying awake)
Anything without an engine == a bicycle (It becomes part of you and you move through the scenery. You continually sense through the seat of your pants what you are going to be able to do)

[1] familiar airplane and airfield, but not at 2800ft. (1:06 long)

...

More interesting to start at 1000ft. It is a standard way of losing altitude fast. (0:24 long)

...

[2] Good luck ATC Go on, count them if you can (2:40 long, but don't watch it all!)

...

In the interest of keeping the discussion in gliding balanced the other extreme is shitting your pants for the last 1-2 minutes of the flight, narrowly clipping tree tops and eventually landing in a field with some bemused looking cows and hobbling off to found some leaves to clean up with while wondering how you're going to get the glider back to the air strip...

Bliss...

View...

IMG_3736.jpeg

Other view...

DSC_5244.jpeg

[tggzzz]

Sounds like hell. Would rather have a couple of CFM56's shoving me along.

At least if you do something wrong it indicates to you verbally that you're a retard.

Don't need to be told anything in a glider. If you do something wrong in a glider one of three things happens: it gets very quiet (and the stick waves around), or the horizon moves fast upwards and/or in circles[1], or you feel like the HHGttG's bowl of petunias. If you can't take that hint, you've merely improved the species. As for being told where to go... ha ha ha[2].

Having said that, I do remember seeing an arrival which almost reached the runway. Apparently the conversation just before that between two highly rated instructors was "Are you flying this thing" "No, I thought you were". Or watching an instructor at the end of a race spin in from 200ft - and walk away.

As for hell...
Anything with a ducted fan on the wings == a cruise liner. (My idea of hell on earth: Hotel Shopping Mall California with norovirus and people you don't want to talk to).
Anything with an open fan in front == a car. (Pictures move past the windows. You have difficulty staying awake)
Anything without an engine == a bicycle (It becomes part of you and you move through the scenery. You continually sense through the seat of your pants what you are going to be able to do)

[1] familiar airplane and airfield, but not at 2800ft. (1:06 long)

...

More interesting to start at 1000ft. It is a standard way of losing altitude fast. (0:24 long)

...

[2] Good luck ATC Go on, count them if you can (2:40 long, but don't watch it all!)

...

In the interest of keeping the discussion in gliding balanced the other extreme is shitting your pants for the last 1-2 minutes of the flight, narrowly clipping tree tops and eventually landing in a field with some bemused looking cows and hobbling off to found some leaves to clean up with while wondering how you're going to get the glider back to the air strip...

Bliss...

Where's your video of Fluke 25 + a dowel? Much more interesting.

Trees? Perhaps you were thinking of this famous video, which seriously embarrassed Airbus.

Gliders do it right:

best from 0:35 to 0:55

worth watching all 3:30, to see "pilot A" check the airfield at 2:50. Shame they didn't show the landing a couple of hundred metres after the video ends.

[tggzzz]

I've just received a PM from someone on fleabay...

"Hi. Hope life finds you well. Sorry to bother you with this, but in February of 2021, I bought an osciiloscope from you, a Tek 2465 specifically. I've wondered ever since if you know whether the battery had been swapped out. Many thanks, Regards, ps still works great!"

What a nice surprise, and a pleasure to be able to give a better answer than he was expecting: no Dallas, no A5 electrolytics.

[Robert]

Went to the UK "National Hamfest" on Friday and Saturday. I was selleing in the fleamarket area. I'd not sold there before or attended on the Saturday. It was bit disappointing. Very little test equipment for sale and a lot was literally the same items as last year. I bought a New Peak DCA75 Plus semiconductor analyser and a Radar warning receiver antenna assembly off a Jaguar or Harrier.
The Peak is a very nice bit of kit testing just about any 2 or 3 terminal semiconductor from a diode to a voltage regulator. It even plots the characteristic curves and connects to a PC. The RWR antenna when I took it apart this morning has a pair of nice cavity backed spiral antennas each covering 2-18 GHZ.
Sell was bait werid. I covered my costs but mostly with odds and sods. Very little interest in buying test equipment unless it was givaway prices. Before opening I had two dealers discussing if the HP 8754 VNA was worth buyong for the gold scrap value
Attendance was lower on the saturday but the average age of the visitors was significantly lower.

Robert.

[Zenith]

I've been to The National Hamfest a couple of times. I have friends who live nearby and it combines with a visit. I didn't make it this year because they'd booked a holiday, which clashed. I wasn't that disappointed.

The first time I went on Friday and Saturday. I thought Friday was best. There was a lot of TE and I picked up a couple of prizes. The next year it was cancelled. Last year I went on the Friday and I don't recall buying any major items. There was much less TE.

It's more of a hamfest than a swapmeet. Vendors such as Telonic (Siglent & Rigol) and Peak have stalls. I bought a set of their nice silicone meter leads from Telonic. You can mail order them, but the p&p is expensive. Last year I'm sure there was a party of American hams over for a visit and as a part of the event. In my view Dunstable Downs, McMichael, Newbury, FRARS and Telford are better. Rugby, Andover and Milton Keynes deserve an honourable mention. There are local ones I go to, such as Mendips, Weston-super-Mare and Newport, which have had their moments. There and again, I tend to look out for broken TE going for not much, components and occasionally, boatanchor radios.

[tggzzz]

Thanks for the report. It sounds as if "national hamfest" is either a relic or aspirational I doubt I'll ever get there, unless I decide to make a mini-break of it. Not sure what I would want to go and see in Lincolnshire, though.

Maybe on the way to or from Yorkshire and some places in the north east, e.g.
https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/ I went several times as a kid, when it was near Clapham Common.
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/visit/ ... t/cragside one of the first electric houses
https://thebowesmuseum.org.uk/ to see the magnificent quarter millennium old ugly duck in operation

[Robert]

I heard the FRARS was good this year. It used to be my local rally but it's a bit far now.
I'll have to try Telford next year. As we all know rallies and the hobby have changed significantly.

Robert.

[Zenith]

I thought FRARS was a little disappointing this year. It clashed with Rugby, which was irritating. tggzzz and synx508 were also there. There's a thread in the Events section.

The rally scene isn't what it was a few years back. It also depends what you are interested in. There was stuff at Telford I might have bought two years back. Sometimes minor local rallies can produce things you've been looking for, or unexpected treasures.

[tggzzz]

Nowadays if I want something,I go to fleabay.

The thing I like about rallies is serendipity, which rarely strikes ;( Hence like to visit somewhere else afterwards.

TNMoC is a standard after DDARC, but I've had a couple of pleasant surprises this year, q.v.

[MED6753]

You guys are lucky. Ham fests around here are few and usually have maybe 5 sellers at most and almost no TE. There's one next Sunday but the last time I went to it there was nothing except one seller of new RF equipment and the ARRL.

Oh yea.....lots of unwashed grubby looking hobos sitting at a table with coffee and donuts. Is it a requirement that hams must look like they come out of the cellar once a year?

[bd139]

On the subject of grubby looking hobos, the Tesla coil people seem to wash up quite well compared to the hams. See viewtopic.php?t=428

Please excuse the lack of replies on the forum for a bit. Been rather busy. Discord allows immediacy and brevity so that is getting some attention but the forum requires some time to sit down and write something a little more lengthy. I've managed to fill the entire calendar to the last hour every day for the last 3 months I think. Managed to (accidentally) land myself a part time voluntary job of hosting museum and social events and it has got quite busy. One of the events is above for example but there's 4 a month at average. Also off to Warsaw at the end of the month literally a week after moving house. Plus the next OU module is kicking in at the same time.

As for the hamfests, I think the last one I actually liked that I went to was Newbury. That had some good bargains. Also that one, which I can't remember which it was, where Robert dumped his 427A off on me

[Zenith]

Oh yea.....lots of unwashed grubby looking hobos sitting at a table with coffee and donuts. Is it a requirement that hams must look like they come out of the cellar once a year?

Amateur radio is an ageing hobby in the UK, so there aren't that many young people at these events. There's a type which amuses me, wearing a floppy sun hat with a cord to retain it, shorts and sandals with socks. There's a character I see wearing a fez and another who wears a normal straw sun hat sideways. There aren't many women at these things, but you do see a few strange ladies, if you get my drift.

[bd139]

Oh yea.....lots of unwashed grubby looking hobos sitting at a table with coffee and donuts. Is it a requirement that hams must look like they come out of the cellar once a year?

Amateur radio is an ageing hobby in the UK, so there aren't that many young people at these events. There's a type which amuses me, wearing a floppy sun hat with a cord to retain it, shorts and sandals with socks. There's a character I see wearing a fez and another who wears a normal straw sun hat sideways. There aren't many women at these things, but you do see a few strange ladies, if you get my drift.

The floppy hat works if you know how and where to wear it.

Sandals and socks. Must be Germans! Wouldn’t be caught dead wearing that.

[MED6753]

Oh yea.....lots of unwashed grubby looking hobos sitting at a table with coffee and donuts. Is it a requirement that hams must look like they come out of the cellar once a year?

Amateur radio is an ageing hobby in the UK, so there aren't that many young people at these events. There's a type which amuses me, wearing a floppy sun hat with a cord to retain it, shorts and sandals with socks. There's a character I see wearing a fez and another who wears a normal straw sun hat sideways. There aren't many women at these things, but you do see a few strange ladies, if you get my drift.

It is aging over here too with few young taking up the hobby.

[vk6zgo]

Oh yea.....lots of unwashed grubby looking hobos sitting at a table with coffee and donuts. Is it a requirement that hams must look like they come out of the cellar once a year?

Amateur radio is an ageing hobby in the UK, so there aren't that many young people at these events. There's a type which amuses me, wearing a floppy sun hat with a cord to retain it, shorts and sandals with socks. There's a character I see wearing a fez and another who wears a normal straw sun hat sideways. There aren't many women at these things, but you do see a few strange ladies, if you get my drift.

It is aging over here too with few young taking up the hobby.

The Perth Hamfest had a lot of "well washed & brushed up" individuals, dressed in various clean casual clothes, with mainly people in the 40 to mid 60s range.
Real old dodderers like myself, & young hams, are definitely in the minority.
There was a fair bit of TE, though not always complete or guaranteed functional.

It seems to mainly be one of the few chances to catch up with cronies, more than anything else, to check that they are still alive & verify I am still alive.
They do coffee & doughnuts, but also their trademark beef rolls!

Compared to the big hamfests elsewhere, it is a bit of a "boutique" affair, but I like it!

[Zenith]

There was a fair bit of TE, though not always complete or guaranteed functional.

At a few hamfests there's an indoor section and you can see equipment powered up, and so check whether it works, a bit. It might be enough to tell whether the unobtainium O/P parts are still working, which is something.

Generally, you only have the seller's assurance that it works. They may have powered it up and seen that it does something; scopes produce a display from the calibrator, that sort of thing. It's very unlikely it will have been given proper check as per the maintenance manual, which an instrument dealer would do when selling something not "spares or repairs". I don't find many sellers are basically dishonest, it's just that their idea of good working order and yours might be totally different.

I assume anything I buy from these events has problems, which I see as being part of the fun. Obscure items where no manual is available, are not worth much. I don't see as much total junk as I'd like, scopes which have obviously been partly stripped and things like that. I suspect it's because they would sell for no more than a couple of quid and are not worth the trouble of hauling there.

Apart from TE, they can produce hauls of components, manuals, books, and other things. You have to look under the stalls and sift through the boxes of assorted items. They are a good place to pick up quality BNC cables and things like that.

It seems to mainly be one of the few chances to catch up with cronies, more than anything else, to check that they are still alive & verify I am still alive.
They do coffee & doughnuts, but also their trademark beef rolls!

Compared to the big hamfests elsewhere, it is a bit of a "boutique" affair, but I like it!

20 years back when ebay was fairly new, but having an effect, I was talking to one of the regulars, and he said he didn't like the effect ebay was having on the social side that went with swapmeets. There is a social side and it's the only time I see several ex-colleagues. At the Telford rally a couple of Sundays back, I'd arranged a swap with Factory from the other place. Towards the end we all had a chat and compared prizes. They are usually an agreeable day out at least.

[tggzzz]

Apart from TE, they can produce hauls of components, manuals, books, and other things. You have to look under the stalls and sift through the boxes of assorted items. They are a good place to pick up quality BNC cables and things like that.

Doubly so for good quality SMA cables! Look at the new prices at a decent distributor, and weep.

Sure, you can pick up beautifully light and flexible SMA cables for a pittance on fleabay - but it isn't long before you think you would be silly to put them back on the rack.

[MED6753]

The standard attire for most aged hams here is typically greasy hair with a baseball cap, scraggly large beard with evidence of the last meal embedded in it, large pot belly, and bib overalls.

[mansaxel]

Recently I had reason to ponder over age and such, since it was an annual day related to birth.

In the gift pile there was a desoldering hot tweezers set, the Sequre HT-140 that's been doing the rounds: CuriousMarc reported favourably on it, and MadHacker over on Discord said similar things, so I put it on the wish list.

I must say it is very good. I can do things I never could before. I've got a Focusrite sound card with a sick input that will require me to remove a SMD IC, and this will make it possible. As training, I'm mutilating a Netgear 24-port 100Mbit switch and practising lifting components. MLCC and 8-legged IC are no problem; the longer ones are probably going to require some preheating, because the tweezers aren't long enough.

I have a Tek 500MHz scope completely choc-a-bloc full of leaky SMD electrolytes, so once I've -- for training purposes -- killed a RAID controller riser board from a Dell server that's similarly infested, I will take on that too. Bar the sheer volume of the caps on the Tek I think it'll be easier. The caps are reasonably large and should lift off cleanly.