Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

[MED6753]

I'm not aware of any reliable TE dealer on this side of the pond so you guys are lucky to have at least one. I've been avoiding browsing Ebay lately because the prices asked even for junk are ridiculous. Facebook Marketplace and sometimes Craigslist have been pure gold. The sellers typically don't understand what they have or they just flat out what to get rid of it. And since it's local I can go pick it up and avoid the perils of shipping. The only unit that didn't pan out from these purchases was the recent 485 with the blown X6 multiplier, but it did give up a good trigger board.

[Zenith]

The scene has changed, as scenes are prone to do.

Back around 1990 I was discussing with my manager (degree in EE and keen radio amateur who had drifted into software) what we were going to squander our bonuses on. I said Stewart of Reading was offering Tek 475s for £600, on special offer and I was tempted. He told me to forget it. It certainly wouldn't come with probes, and probes which would do it justice would cost half as much again. If it failed almost certainly I wouldn't be able to fix it myself and getting it fixed would be prohibitive. How times change. The last two 475s I bought were £5 each. One came with the front cover and a haul of respectable probes, including the original Tek numbers. You don't come across such things at every swapmeet, just enough to keep hope alive.

It's hard to compare things from country to country. I've no idea what it's like in the US. My impression is that even modest Hameg gear fetches a long price in Germany. The last time I came across one and expressed interest, the seller told me he was looking for paper money for it. I made an act of searching through my wallet and told him I had a Confederate dollar in there somewhere. He saw the funny side.

[tggzzz]

Back in 1990 even top end digitizing scopes were unpleasant to use. I know, I was using
HP54100d: 6 bit, 1GHz, 40MS/s. Knew the bloke who designed the digitiser; nice guy.

The advances in ADC and DAC technology has been stunning.

[Zenith]

I'm sure I saw someone struggling away with one, risking rupture and spine damage under the weight of it, a couple of years back at the Chippenham winter rally.

You mentioned that £15 had been parted with.

Now this gold harvesting thing, well it may not be entirely unjustified and to be despised.

[EC8010]

I visited Stewart's about six months ago; it was very sad. It was a veritable graveyard of ancient kit piled high. There was all sorts of stuff I recognised but whether any of it worked was another matter. I bought a Farnell power supply and all its electrolytics were duff. And it turned out to have a meter that stuck at one point. I managed to graft another meter movement in but it turns out that Farnell power supplies are not very nice to work on. It will be refurbished, just not yet. Radio rallies appear to be the best bets for buying test gear.

[tggzzz]

"It is always the electrolytics" is equally valid at hamfests.

There doesn't seem to be too much decent TE at hamfests; it is a crapshoot. Fleabay seems to have replaced hamfests for TE. It is easier to see stuff working (or not) on fleabay, with shipping competence being the main issue.

Having said that, to my surprise and annoyance, I picked up a nice HP 3GHz VNA boat anchor at a local small hamfest

[Zenith]

Having said that, to my surprise and annoyance, I picked up a nice HP 3GHz VNA boat anchor at a local small hamfest

And at the same rally the year before, you picked up that excellent Marconi TF2700 LCR bridge, also to your surprise and annoyance.

Rallies have advantages in that the prices are better, and you can look items over and maybe even see them working. The disadvantage and part of the fun, is it all depends on what happens to be there.

[tggzzz]

Having said that, to my surprise and annoyance, I picked up a nice HP 3GHz VNA boat anchor at a local small hamfest

And at the same rally the year before, you picked up that excellent Marconi TF2700 LCR bridge, also to your surprise and annoyance.

Rallies have advantages in that the prices are better, and you can look items over and maybe even see them working. The disadvantage and part of the fun, is it all depends on what happens to be there.

I only bought the bridge to please you. Honest^[1].

It isn't usual to be able to see stuff working at rallies, especially since the larger ones are in the middle of a field.

"Serendipity" is my favourite word, and yes it does apply to rallies.

[1] Can I interest you in a nice bridge I have for sale?

[EC8010]

I should have qualified my comment about radio rallies being good for buying test gear. A lot of the sellers there are having a bit of a clearout (possibly instructed to by SWMBO). They are usually very honest about what they're selling, know all its good and bad points, and are often concerned that it should go to a good home. The lack of power isn't usually an issue. Dealers, on the other hand, just need to make a sale, and you're lucky if they've even seen it working before offering it for sale at the maximum price they think they can get away with. In the unlikely event of my ever selling my lathe, any potential purchaser would be throughly vetted for suitability. Likewise, my test gear.

[tggzzz]

That's an interesting perspective, definitely worth keeping in mind.

Sometimes it will be a little tricky to distinguish between the two categories.

[Zenith]

I don't take any interest in ham gear, hi-fi (of which there is generally little) domestic radios, tape recorders, disco equipment etc. My observation of buying test gear from rallies is about the same as yours and is this.

Not much changes hands for more than £200.

I don't recall ever being outright lied to by a seller, such as being assured something works and finding a burned out mains transformer. The seller's idea of working and my idea of working are often two different things. eg Racal frequency counters which work on the low frequency range but not the high frequency range. Scopes where the delay sweep doesn't work. Things like that. Even if the equipment is powered up, it's not like having it at home on the bench, so it's hard to tell.

Very often the seller doesn't have that much of a clue about the item. Also, it's often been kept somewhere damp, such as a garage and it may well have been OK when it was put in there, ten years back. I can't recall buying anything where the seller was concerned whether it was going to a good home.

Quite a bit of it is stuff they want to get rid of, but it seems wrong to take down the dump, even though that may make more sense than selling it at a rally, all considered. They want to get a few quid and pay for the stall and the trip. Then there's silent key stuff. I get the impression that the modern ham gear is sold off, and there's a residue of test gear sold off by the club or friends of the SK for the family. Once again, the sellers may not have much idea what they are selling. These are usually get rid of it stalls and are often where the bargains are.

I see one or two serious sellers of TE at the bigger rallies, although I don't get the impression they are trying to make a living at it. Generally they don't have much of interest to me and their prices are too high.

I'm interested in boatanchor comms sets, nowhere as much as I used to be, but I will bite if I see something which catches my attention at a low price. Prices and conditions are all over the place.

Rallies can produce hauls of components, valves, wire, tools, manuals, cables and books. Cables can be real bargains.

My experience of instrument dealers is buying a couple of items from M&B Radio back in the day and a couple of items from Stewart's. I found there were no significant problems. Quite a few people have said they were satisified customers of Stewarts over the years.

A friend bought a Marconi distortion meter from another dealer, now closed. It appeared to be ex MoD and unopened. The frequency dial was completely out. He complained and was told it wasn't sold as calibrated, so they weren't interested. It wasn't capable of being brought into calibration and so was faulty. Rather than mess about with them any more, he investigated and found it was a manufacturing fault. Wrong component values had been fitted in the factory.

[EC8010]

Agreed, anything >£200 is too much of a risk; you need to know the kit intimately and be capable of fixing it. Which doesn't just mean correctly diagnosing the fault; it means being able to lay your hands on suitable parts.

Yes, to me, working means, "In all respects." To many, it means, "The displays lit up."

Sheds, garages, and damp are a serious issue. It's quite rare that the seller interrogates the suitability of the buyer, but it's a good sign.

Silent key stalls often have bargains. I bought a TF2700 for £15 for a friend at the beginning of the year. Bargain!

Oddly, tools can sometimes be good, but you really have to know your stuff. Too many people have cheap tat and think it's worth something. Why do people rust files before selling them? I've never seen any Lindstrom Supreme or Ergo at a stall. But I did get ripper milling cutters for £1 a pop, so that was good.

Thirty years ago, I bought a BBC EP14/1 audio test set from BBC Redundant Plant. I'd bought two others for work, and was short of time to test the third for myself. It turned out mine was the Friday afternoon clunker. Made incorrectly, then an attempted fix had broken the (ceramic) shaft of the tone generator's variable capacitor. Amazingly, I was able to collect the ceramic fragments, glue them, and make that variable capacitor work again. At which point, I found out why it had been interfered with. A couple of trimmer capacitors brought it all into calibration. You can't discount manufacturing faults. (And idiot "repair" people who should wear boxing gloves.)

[Zenith]

Silent key stalls often have bargains. I bought a TF2700 for £15 for a friend at the beginning of the year. Bargain!

That's what I tried to tell tggzzz after I pointed a TF2700 to him, and he bought it at the W-s-M rally a year back, for the same modest amount. It's been a sore topic ever since. His view of the purchase appears to be one of sullen resentfulness, born of him believing he was manipulated in some way.

Oddly, tools can sometimes be good, but you really have to know your stuff. Too many people have cheap tat and think it's worth something. Why do people rust files before selling them? I've never seen any Lindstrom Supreme or Ergo at a stall. But I did get ripper milling cutters for £1 a pop, so that was good.

I've got a pair of Lindstrom 'production quality' side cutters and they really are the business. I've had them for 30 years.

I bought a couple of pairs of new side cutters at a rally for a fiver, taking care to select ones where no light could be seen between the cutting edges when they were closed. They appear to cut nicely. How long they will stay that way I don't know. I bought them because the more pairs of side cutters I've got, the less time I'm likely to spend looking for a pair when I want one. They are significantly better than the rubbishy things I bought from Maplin long ago.

I've also bought artery forceps, which lock and are sometimes useful for reaching, threading and holding things, dental picks, some nice tweezers, long nosed pliers and jeweller's eye glasses.

Generally I don't go to rallies expecting to buy tools.

I believe they've turned up a few gems, such as a quality model maker's lathe and tools for £50 or so.

[mansaxel]

PNP BJTs are very slightly quieter than NPN. It's generally <1dB, mind.

Oooh er! Hadn't considered that. Anybody buying aged test equipment for its valves is an idiot; if not worn out, the valves will be well on their way. Would I buy a DMM using nixies? Not really; I want better accuracy than was achievable in that era. I can't imagine much useful test gear is lost to that cause. I know the late Jim Williams favoured a valve oscilloscope but I can't imagine any valve test gear would be useful today. I await a frenzied response telling me how wrong I am.

The hp 428b -- valves to its end of production in 1984ish. unrivalled as a DC clamp. About 1000 times more sensitive than my cheap DC clamp.
The hp 410b -- 121MΩ input impedance in DC mode and calibrated to 700+ MHz in AC.

Those are the examples on my bench. Others exist. As soon as you get into logic circuits, the transistor reigns supreme though.

On valves and life expectancy -- au contraire! -- the operating point and design parameters for valves in TE was far more conservative than in say a Vox or Marshall amp, so they can be perfectly OK after 50 years. Gold to the tube rapists, then. That crowd are trying to fulfil an internal need of speciality, which can only be met by the glass body being stamped "Mullard" or "Telefunken" and not Shuguang.

[tggzzz]

Silent key stalls often have bargains. I bought a TF2700 for £15 for a friend at the beginning of the year. Bargain!

That's what I tried to tell tggzzz after I pointed a TF2700 to him, and he bought it at the W-s-M rally a year back, for the same modest amount. It's been a sore topic ever since. His view of the purchase appears to be one of sullen resentfulness, born of him believing he was manipulated in some way.

I was manipulated, easily. For my own good.

And actually I do realise that

Oddly, tools can sometimes be good, but you really have to know your stuff. Too many people have cheap tat and think it's worth something. Why do people rust files before selling them? I've never seen any Lindstrom Supreme or Ergo at a stall. But I did get ripper milling cutters for £1 a pop, so that was good.

I've got a pair of Lindstrom 'production quality' side cutters and they really are the business. I've had them for 30 years.

I can beat you there!

I was using one of my pairs of Lindstrom fully flush sidecutters in 1980 Nowadays I reserve it for important tasks like the crevices at the edge of my toenails. Also contemporary needle nose pliers.

I have a pair of 7190s which I bought for £21 in 2021 on fleabay. That's my good everyday electronic pair.

I have some £2.50 very sharp ones from rallies; good enough for copper leads. No idea how long they will last, but at that price they are disposable.

I bought a couple of pairs of new side cutters at a rally for a fiver, taking care to select ones where no light could be seen between the cutting edges when they were closed. They appear to cut nicely. How long they will stay that way I don't know. I bought them because the more pairs of side cutters I've got, the less time I'm likely to spend looking for a pair when I want one. They are significantly better than the rubbishy things I bought from Maplin long ago.

Knowing I would need them for electronics and bicycles, I bought a pair of chunky not full flush clippers and pointed but not needle nosed pliers before I went to university. I still use them regularly. Remarkable.

I don't still use my oldest T-shirt; ought to flog it but not sure what price to ask. £20 £50 £100? There is a 1970s example up for sale for $250, but it isn't a 1973 variant.

[EC8010]

The hp 428b -- valves to its end of production in 1984ish. unrivalled as a DC clamp. About 1000 times more sensitive than my cheap DC clamp.
The hp 410b -- 121MΩ input impedance in DC mode and calibrated to 700+ MHz in AC.

So I looked both instruments up. The 428b looks very nice. If I ever see one (at a sensible price), I'll buy it. It's much more sensitive than my (DC-100MHz) current probe. The 410b reminds me of the Marconi voltmeter I had over forty years ago. It was 100M input resistance on its DC leads and the (bulky) AC probe was supposed to be good to 1GHz. I looked to see if I could find one to identify a model number, but I only found something having feeble bandwidth.

I don't know what Shuguang are like now, but their 1990s offerings lasted only a very short time before the cathodes ran out of emission.

Never use electronics tools for bicycles! I wrecked a pair of perfectly good cable cutters that way on a brake cable. I now have a seriously robust cutter for that job. https://www.parktool.com/en-int/product ... 6+Shifting

I once saw a lovely little lathe at the Newbury radio rally for £70. It was unrusted (!), had a three-jaw chuck and a tail stock chuck, so it was worth £70 just for the chucks. But whilst two lathes are useful, I couldn't see a use for a third. I was very tempted to buy it anyway and strap it to the back of the bike (it was only little). I do hope it went to a good home.

[tggzzz]

Never use electronics tools for bicycles! I wrecked a pair of perfectly good cable cutters that way on a brake cable. I now have a seriously robust cutter for that job. https://www.parktool.com/en-int/product ... 6+Shifting

Impecunious schoolchildren don't have much pocket money!

Those tools were more general purpose tools, which could also be used for the large and bulky electronics of the mid 70s.

I expect I used the plier's cutters for brake cables. Certainly the flush cutters have sustained some damage over the half century, but then I never imagined I would have them for so long! [1]

The flush cutters are still usable for many "bulky" electronic purposes, and are my preferred tool for stripping the insulation off many wires.

[1] true for a surprising number of things I own, or things I am owned by.

[nixiefreqq]

hmmmmm.......coins with a queen on them.

just out of curiosity........have coins been issued yet with an image of the king?

(not trying to stir up anything.......just wondering).

[tggzzz]

hmmmmm.......coins with a queen on them.

just out of curiosity........have coins been issued yet with an image of the king?

(not trying to stir up anything.......just wondering).

Interesting question; can't think how it would stir anything up!

King Charles notes have been in circulation since June 2024, and on looking it seems I have one. Wouldn't have noticed unless you asked.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknot ... -banknotes

Looks like coins are entering circulation at various times. Haven't noticed any.
https://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/press ... rculation/
https://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/press ... rculation/

[Zenith]

Apparently Charles III coins have been issued for general circulation for two years or more. I can't say I've noticed any, but I don't particularly look.

Charles III bank notes have been around for over a year. I'd guess over 95% of bank notes are still Elizabeth II. There seem to be more £5 and £10 Charles III notes around than £20 notes.

[tggzzz]

Apparently Charles III coins have been issued for general circulation for two years or more. I can't say I've noticed any, but I don't particularly look.

As a kid I used to look all the time, partly through boredom, and partly because old coins were still in circulation, even though grossly eroded. I have many Edwardian and Victorian coins, the oldest being 1863. I seem to recall having had a small booklet listing prices of each coin/date.

Never found a 1933 penny, more's the pity.

Nowadays almost all my transactions are contactless card, courtesy of covid. I use currency at rallies, and keep some for the apocalypse.

[Zenith]

As a kid I used to look all the time, partly through boredom, and partly because old coins were still in circulation, even though grossly eroded. I have many Edwardian and Victorian coins, the oldest being 1863. I seem to recall having had a small booklet listing prices of each coin/date.

A lot of topical or whimsical 50p coins are issued. Some of them are worth far more than face value to collectors. I've seen this thing mentioned sometimes in the daily rags. I can't see interest myself, but it takes all sorts to make a world.

https://coinhunter.co.uk/50p/worth/

I can remember the odd Edward VII penny so worn as to be barely recognisable.

[EC8010]

I wonder how long it will be before Trump's fizzog appears on US currency? (Mild stir.)

[MED6753]

Last month after almost 250 years the last 1 cent penny was struck by the US Mint. It cost over 2.5 cents for each 1 cent penny struck. I guess Canada did the same a few years ago.

I noticed that one of the fancy UK 50p coins celebrated UK's membership of the EU. Funny how that didn't work out.

Mild stir here too.

[MED6753]

I wonder how long it will be before Trump's fizzog appears on US currency? (Mild stir.)

It will be on the new penny.