Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

[synx508]

There's also the militarisation of space to consider. Russia has used a presumed kinetic weapon to shatter a satellite and more recently has been making threats to the ICEYE RADAR imaging satellite by moving four COSMOS satellites around close to it. USA with Boeing X-37B and likely other systems that will contribute to "golden dome" or previously "star wars", China and possibly Russia have orbital weapons systems.

[Zenith]

For instance we have become pretty much completely dependent on reliable mains electricity to the extent that most shops can't operate without it. Petrol pumps won't run without it.

Indeed. Gone are the days of the "Open All Hours" mechanical cash register.

Or those drapers shops where there were counters all round the walls. When your mother bought something she handed the money to the member of staff, who put it in a container with the receipt. Then they pulled a handle, which operated a spring loaded thing which sent it shooting off along an overhead track to the cashier. The cashier who sat in a booth at the end of the shop, stamped the receipt and sent it and the change shooting off along the track back to the seller, who handed to the customer. I haven't seen one since the early 60s.

Some big shops had a similar thing where they put the money and the receipt into a cylinder, which was propelled through pipes by compressed air to the cashier's office, and the cylinder was returned the same way.

Apart from tills, a lot of modern shops couldn't run using natural light, even in the summer. There's an increasing move to using cards rather than cash.

A couple of days of widespread power cuts would cause a tremendous amount of disruption. Then there's the question of starting the electricity grid from scratch should it ever prove necessary.

[EC8010]

I've never seen a draper's shop like that. But I once went to a haberdashers looking for some elastic. I was confronted by a young punk lady with obligatory pin through nose, black lipstick, torn jeans etc. My heart sank; the person I needed was an Edwardian battleaxe. Nevertheless, I tried to explain what I had seen in a microphone cradle. Punk lady nodded knowledgeably and led me to a section with a selection of knicker elastic. I chose, gave her my effusive thanks and vowed not to misled by appearances again.

[tggzzz]

Indeed. Gone are the days of the "Open All Hours" mechanical cash register.

Or those drapers shops where there were counters all round the walls.

Not just drapers. In my first job Sainsbury's in Leatherhead was still like that: you asked the staff to pick a tin off the shelf behind them, they kept the tins until after you had paid. Prehistoric.

Some big shops had a similar thing where they put the money and the receipt into a cylinder, which was propelled through pipes by compressed air to the cashier's office, and the cylinder was returned the same way.

I've seen vacuum tube comms in a shop relatively recently (i.e. <10 years ago). Can't remember where. Maybe Tesco (which would be a reason for expunging the store from my memory) https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments ... checkouts/

Foyles bookshop had several obnoxious practices that are commonplace in India. From a customer viewpoint there was books being ordered by publisher rather than subject, and (1) queueing to get a receipt before (2) queueing at a separate till to pay the receipt and finally (3) returning to collect your books. Staff had other justified gripes.

A couple of days of widespread power cuts would cause a tremendous amount of disruption.

RA Engineering report about the recent Lancaster experience "Living without electricity - One city’s experience of coping with loss of power"
https://wp.lancs.ac.uk/floodarchive/fil ... ricity.pdf

Then there's the question of starting the electricity grid from scratch should it ever prove necessary.

That's one reason Cruachan and Dinorwic power stations exist. The equivalent was used in Spain last year.

[synx508]

Jackson's of Jackson's Corner in Reading had the tube system until it closed in 2013. There's a picture of the tube office here https://whatsonreading.com/venues/readi ... omas-macey

[Robert]

There's also the militarisation of space to consider. Russia has used a presumed kinetic weapon to shatter a satellite and more recently has been making threats to the ICEYE RADAR imaging satellite by moving four COSMOS satellites around close to it. USA with Boeing X-37B and likely other systems that will contribute to "golden dome" or previously "star wars", China and possibly Russia have orbital weapons systems.

That is why I added the "pub quiz" questions.
During the Cuban missile crisis the USA and Soviet union each exploded two high altitude nuclear tests. These were mainly for EMP effects testing. If they could do it then they certainly can do it now.

[Zenith]

Foyles bookshop had several obnoxious practices that are commonplace in India. From a customer viewpoint there was books being ordered by publisher rather than subject, and (1) queueing to get a receipt before (2) queueing at a separate till to pay the receipt and finally (3) returning to collect your books. Staff had other justified gripes.

In the late 60s the school had a talk from someone who'd made his way from the UK to Australia, mainly over land. When he was in India he wanted to send an airmail letter to the UK. He stood in a queue for half an hour for the position which sold stamps. He asked for a stamp for an air mail letter. The clerk said he'd have to ask for a stamp of the particular value but he couldn't say what it was. He'd have to ask at the enquiries position. He had to queue another half hour to find out what an air mail stamp cost, then another half hour in the original queue to buy the stamp.

I only shopped at Foyles once in the 70s. It did have the book I was looking for. It was a huge, rambling place. I don't recall messing about to buy it, but it's been a long time ago. They had a bad reputation for their employment practices back then.

A couple of days of widespread power cuts would cause a tremendous amount of disruption.

RA Engineering report about the recent Lancaster experience "Living without electricity - One city’s experience of coping with loss of power"
https://wp.lancs.ac.uk/floodarchive/fil ... ricity.pdf

Then there's the question of starting the electricity grid from scratch should it ever prove necessary.

That's one reason Cruachan and Dinorwic power stations exist. The equivalent was used in Spain last year.

There are contingency plans, but it's not been done, and there are questions about how long it would take, possibly days.

[tggzzz]

That's one reason Cruachan and Dinorwic power stations exist. The equivalent was used in Spain last year.

There are contingency plans, but it's not been done, and there are questions about how long it would take, possibly days.

Fortunately it hasn't been necessary, yet.

No doubt the time taken to reboot would be due to the cause of the failure. The Iberian failure was relatively benign, and still took a day. If a Carrington Event destroyed many transformers over a wide area, it could be many months until transformers are manufactured, delivered and installed.

As MI5 reportedly puts it, "we are four meals away from riots".

[MED6753]

Listed on my local CL as a "Tektronix 1725A". Duh.....

[Zenith]

It looks like a good find. I've only seen a couple of HP172X scopes, both 1727, the analogue storage version. I don't like analogue storage scopes and the CRTs were notoriously short lived, so I didn't pursue them.

[Cubdriver]

I have a 1727A - it's a looooooooooong scope! (2'/61 cm from feet to face of cover)

-Pat

[Zenith]

I have a 1744A, the 100MHz analogue storage version, with the manual and front cover. I never really liked it and only used the storage facility once or twice. Those scopes were long. It hasn't been powered up for 20 years. I've also got a 1703A which in a moment of madness I bought for £10 at a rally. It's a 30MHz analogue storage scope. There was a sticker saying it probably had a dead EHT transformer. Well actually I was mainly interested in the knobs, which are much the same as on an 8640. Some of the knobs on my 8640 are getting tatty. I haven't really checked it out, but apart from the knobs, it probably has enough useful, and now hard to find bits to cover the £10. No tunnel diodes, but some ultra matched FETs.

Some people at swapmeets pick up this stuff for the gold content.

[EC8010]

Some people at swapmeets pick up this stuff for the gold content.

They are Philistines.

[nixiefreqq]

hoochie mama!

I like it!

but I wouldn't pay more than 25 bucks for one.

in fact yesterday I gave a 1741 to a neighborhood college kid who just finished his first year and picked engineering science as his major. (was afraid he was gonna' pick physics).

also gave him a 2A 40V regulated bench ps, a fluke 8020, a fluke 8010, an hp54601, an hp5300a counter with 5302a 50Mhz and 5303b 525Mhz plugin, a 10 Mhz ocxo, and an old 15-2700Mhz rf explorer SA.

the kid may be ruined for life now........but the stacks of junk in the fortress of solitude do not appear to be noticeably smaller. (although swmbo stood and cheered as we loaded the kids car)


ps for the love of god ........if med buys that 1725 and paints it blue........don't anyone tell me.

[Zenith]

Some people at swapmeets pick up this stuff for the gold content.

They are Philistines.

I'm not so sure. Also I'm not certain of the way the economics of gold recovery works. 70s/80s HP kit used gold lavishly. These days if it works it may well still be in calibration or close. If it doesn't work, it may be because some completely unobtainable part has given up the ghost, and there's no easy way to substitute with modern parts. Sometimes the parts can be bought, but for a price. e.g. American Micro Semiconductor still make tunnel diodes. Don't look at their prices if you have a weak heart. And then the Tek/HP requirement often wasn't a part, it was a specially selected or matched pair of parts. OK if the part was fairly cheap at the time and you could test hundreds, not so good if you've managed to track one down at a painful price.

I think a lot of this stuff ends up at swapmeets for a few quid, because the owner can't fix it, can't bear to take it to the dump, and would rather someone saw value in it, even to the extent of the price of a pint or two. Most of these items, that cost a fortune 40 or 50 years ago, must long have been in landfill.

I also get the impression that the gold hunters go round at the end of swapmeets and pay not much, for things that hundreds have seen and no one wanted, even as parts mules. I've seen it stressed that stall holders must leave no scrap for the organisers to dispose of.

[MED6753]

hoochie mama!

I like it!

but I wouldn't pay more than 25 bucks for one.

in fact yesterday I gave a 1741 to a neighborhood college kid who just finished his first year and picked engineering science as his major. (was afraid he was gonna' pick physics).

also gave him a 2A 40V regulated bench ps, a fluke 8020, a fluke 8010, an hp54601, an hp5300a counter with 5302a 50Mhz and 5303b 525Mhz plugin, a 10 Mhz ocxo, and an old 15-2700Mhz rf explorer SA.

the kid may be ruined for life now........but the stacks of junk in the fortress of solitude do not appear to be noticeably smaller. (although swmbo stood and cheered as we loaded the kids car)


ps for the love of god ........if med buys that 1725 and paints it blue........don't anyone tell me.

They want $200 for that hp scope which is ridiculous so it's safe from painting it blue.

[Robert]

Some people at swapmeets pick up this stuff for the gold content.

They are Philistines.

I'm not so sure. Also I'm not certain of the way the economics of gold recovery works. 70s/80s HP kit used gold lavishly. These days if it works it may well still be in calibration or close. If it doesn't work, it may be because some completely unobtainable part has given up the ghost, and there's no easy way to substitute with modern parts. Sometimes the parts can be bought, but for a price. e.g. American Micro Semiconductor still make tunnel diodes. Don't look at their prices if you have a weak heart. And then the Tek/HP requirement often wasn't a part, it was a specially selected or matched pair of parts. OK if the part was fairly cheap at the time and you could test hundreds, not so good if you've managed to track one down at a painful price.

I think a lot of this stuff ends up at swapmeets for a few quid, because the owner can't fix it, can't bear to take it to the dump, and would rather someone saw value in it, even to the extent of the price of a pint or two. Most of these items, that cost a fortune 40 or 50 years ago, must long have been in landfill.

I also get the impression that the gold hunters go round at the end of swapmeets and pay not much, for things that hundreds have seen and no one wanted, even as parts mules. I've seen it stressed that stall holders must leave no scrap for the organisers to dispose of.

Unfortunately a couple of the regular ones in the UK are dealers and they go around before it opens to the public and buy items to scrap. One rally I was selling at this year another dealer came back with a sack truck stacked with HP kit. There was a Impedance meter, with test adaptor, a 4193A, on the top. He was openly discussing scrap value. He would not consider any offer on it because "I've not had one of those before and want to know how much gold is in it". I don't know what he paid for it. He's been going to rallies for at least 30 years.
Now don't get me wrong, I scrap equipment but only if it is completely unwanted (old telecom kit for example) or common and beyond reasonable repair. But I use the parts fr repairs and projects.

[EC8010]

I stand by my Philistine accusation because I had guessed (seemingly accurately) that such people would not consider whether the instrument still had life left in it or could breathe life into another. Just the greed for gold. It would be like kidnapping an orchestra for their instruments, not because they want to hear the musicians play.

[Zenith]

I was vaguely aware that gold harvesting went on at rallies. I assumed it would only be worth doing if you were almost given the TE. However the price of gold is currently over £3,000 an ounce.

Englehards in the Forest of Dean ran an operation extracting gold from electronics. I knew someone who was a contractor there about 40 years ago. Most of the stuff they handled was from scrapped mainframe computers, or modern scrap. Logic chips and discrete components have gold connections in them, enough to be worth extracting if you have enough of them.

[mnementh]

Oh dear... just a week away. Is anybelly coming to meet for lunch this time?

Cheers,

mnem
yes, you may touch it.

[mnementh]

ps for the love of god ........if med buys that 1725 and paints it blue........don't anyone tell me.

mnem

[tggzzz]

I was vaguely aware that gold harvesting went on at rallies. I assumed it would only be worth doing if you were almost given the TE. However the price of gold is currently over £3,000 an ounce.

Englehards in the Forest of Dean ran an operation extracting gold from electronics. I knew someone who was a contractor there about 40 years ago. Most of the stuff they handled was from scrapped mainframe computers, or modern scrap. Logic chips and discrete components have gold connections in them, enough to be worth extracting if you have enough of them.

You can see the surprisingly high prices on fleabay, search for "gold recovery". Example sold price $240 for "6 LBS of Scrap RAM/Memory for Gold Recovery No Heat Shields"

[Zenith]

I was vaguely aware that gold harvesting went on at rallies. I assumed it would only be worth doing if you were almost given the TE. However the price of gold is currently over £3,000 an ounce.

Englehards in the Forest of Dean ran an operation extracting gold from electronics. I knew someone who was a contractor there about 40 years ago. Most of the stuff they handled was from scrapped mainframe computers, or modern scrap. Logic chips and discrete components have gold connections in them, enough to be worth extracting if you have enough of them.

You can see the surprisingly high prices on fleabay, search for "gold recovery". Example sold price $240 for "6 LBS of Scrap RAM/Memory for Gold Recovery No Heat Shields"

That goes a way to explain it. A gramme of gold (31 grammes per Troy ounce) is worth a ton. It's easy to see a big 1970s HP instrument having £25 to £50 worth of gold in it. Enough to cover gathering, transporting it and leave some profit. Not much, but some people are mesmerised by the high price of scrap. When scrap steel peaked in price to over £200 a ton a few years back, because of the demand for steel created by the building boom in Dubhai, scrap collecting became an obsessive activity for some, reaching the level of pinching garden gates.

[tggzzz]

I was vaguely aware that gold harvesting went on at rallies. I assumed it would only be worth doing if you were almost given the TE. However the price of gold is currently over £3,000 an ounce.

Englehards in the Forest of Dean ran an operation extracting gold from electronics. I knew someone who was a contractor there about 40 years ago. Most of the stuff they handled was from scrapped mainframe computers, or modern scrap. Logic chips and discrete components have gold connections in them, enough to be worth extracting if you have enough of them.

You can see the surprisingly high prices on fleabay, search for "gold recovery". Example sold price $240 for "6 LBS of Scrap RAM/Memory for Gold Recovery No Heat Shields"

That goes a way to explain it. A gramme of gold (31 grammes per Troy ounce) is worth a ton. It's easy to see a big 1970s HP instrument having £25 to £50 worth of gold in it.

More than a ton; ~£3500/oz. Over 19 years, my gold has been my best investment (CAGR of 9-10% and there's no CGT payable). Diversification is A Good Thing Mind you, almost all of that growth occurred in the past 8 years. My timing, which is critical for trading, is notoriously bad

Not just HP; Tek too and no doubt others. Here's a picture of a small (~7cm) board in my Tek 184.



A single-sided 3µm layer is probably worth £30 or so, and that's a double-sided board. You can probably double that again for all PCBs.

Enough to cover gathering, transporting it and leave some profit.

I don't know how the gold is removed; maybe dissolved in mercury, then separated somehow. EDIT: sometimes just melted and it is the buyer's problem to separate out the gold https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/236732130634

I think when I flog the 184 I will auction it in two sections: test equipment and "computer equipment and parts", and see which section wins

Not much, but some people are mesmerised by the high price of scrap. When scrap steel peaked in price to over £200 a ton a few years back, because of the demand for steel created by the building boom in Dubhai, scrap collecting became an obsessive activity for some, reaching the level of pinching garden gates.

I don't know whether people really do understand how much can be recovered. I'm unconvinced the lot I mentioned ( https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/168433140661 ) was a sensible price, but what do I know.

Maybe people are channelling the Bunker-Hunt brothers when they tried to corner the silver markets, and people were selling heirloom teapots to street traders with dodgy spring balances!

[Robert]

Ebay prices are unrealistic. People think they can get more out of it than the think. It's called gold fever.
I hate to think what chemical contamination and pollution is being caused by DIY refiners. The mercury method is particularly hazardous. Some years ago a guy in the USA killed people in his apartment complex trying to recover mercury from amalgam.
I use a reputable refining company for my PCB recovery. It's not just the gold that is recovered. Tin, copper, tantalum and even lead is worth recovering. Tanatlum is currently about £100 a kilo and Tin £12.