Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) : Discussion and Group Therapy Thread

[EC8010]

I've just salvaged eighteen 75 ohm insulated BNCs from a video distribution amplifier back. It was worth doing because insulated BNCs are either unobtainium or don't specify their characteristic impedance (implying that it's undefined). As people will know, if you plug a 75 ohm BNC into a 50 ohm socket, you can expect intermittent contact and mistermination at high frequencies. Most of my stuff is <1MHz, so I use BNCs as a means of shielding sensitive measurements. I'd have used MUSAs if I'd thought to acquire a stash when I was surrounded by them at work...

[Zenith]

I don't know how the gold is removed; maybe dissolved in mercury, then separated somehow. EDIT: sometimes just melted and it is the buyer's problem to separate out the gold https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/236732130634

I think when I flog the 184 I will auction it in two sections: test equipment and "computer equipment and parts", and see which section wins

As I recall they use potassium cyanide to dissolve gold. Things like ICs are crushed to dust first. I don't know about tantalum etc. There'll be well worked out processes for recovering valuable metals.

I meant "a ton" in the sense of £100. Since there are 31 grammes per Troy ounce and an ounce of gold is worth something over £3,000, a £100 per gramme is good rough estimate.

Not much, but some people are mesmerised by the high price of scrap. When scrap steel peaked in price to over £200 a ton a few years back, because of the demand for steel created by the building boom in Dubhai, scrap collecting became an obsessive activity for some, reaching the level of pinching garden gates.

I don't know whether people really do understand how much can be recovered. I'm unconvinced the lot I mentioned ( https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/168433140661 ) was a sensible price, but what do I know.

Maybe people are channelling the Bunker-Hunt brothers when they tried to corner the silver markets, and people were selling heirloom teapots to street traders with dodgy spring balances!

Around 1978/79? There was also a gold bubble where people were selling all sorts of beautiful gold items for scrap value. It may have been related.

It's a good thing that precious and industrial metals are recovered rather than ending up in landfill. Also I'd guess that many of the items which had been taken to rallies a few times and didn't sell were taken to the dump. I imagine the dump operators send off items for gold recovery, although I read a lot of computer waste was sent to West Africa and just dumped in the open. That classed as recycling and allowed boxes to be ticked.

I suppose buying up TE at swapmeets for gold value is just the market in operation, but it seems seedy and sad.

[Zenith]

Ebay prices are unrealistic. People think they can get more out of it than the think. It's called gold fever.

Yes, it's not completely rational. As I said, it reminds me of the scrap steel fad about ten years back. The way people were carrying on, you'd have thought they were going to make tens of thousands out of collecting scrap, rather than just a few quid.

[Zenith]

hoochie mama!

I like it!

but I wouldn't pay more than 25 bucks for one.

in fact yesterday I gave a 1741 to a neighborhood college kid who just finished his first year and picked engineering science as his major. (was afraid he was gonna' pick physics).

also gave him a 2A 40V regulated bench ps, a fluke 8020, a fluke 8010, an hp54601, an hp5300a counter with 5302a 50Mhz and 5303b 525Mhz plugin, a 10 Mhz ocxo, and an old 15-2700Mhz rf explorer SA.

the kid may be ruined for life now........but the stacks of junk in the fortress of solitude do not appear to be noticeably smaller. (although swmbo stood and cheered as we loaded the kids car)


ps for the love of god ........if med buys that 1725 and paints it blue........don't anyone tell me.

They want $200 for that hp scope which is ridiculous so it's safe from painting it blue.

Maybe $30.

[MED6753]

Oh dear... just a week away. Is anybelly coming to meet for lunch this time?

Cheers,

mnem
yes, you may touch it.

I would love to go but Blondie is having the remaining kidney stones removed on Friday.

[tggzzz]

Ebay prices are unrealistic. People think they can get more out of it than the think. It's called gold fever.
I hate to think what chemical contamination and pollution is being caused by DIY refiners. The mercury method is particularly hazardous. Some years ago a guy in the USA killed people in his apartment complex trying to recover mercury from amalgam.
I use a reputable refining company for my PCB recovery. It's not just the gold that is recovered. Tin, copper, tantalum and even lead is worth recovering. Tanatlum is currently about £100 a kilo and Tin £12.

Just so I wondered whether someone has read recent headlines and thinks old memory is worth a lot.

How easy are such companies to find and deal with?

For comparison, saffron is £4000-8000/kg

[tggzzz]

It's a good thing that precious and industrial metals are recovered rather than ending up in landfill.

About a decade ago I hypothesised that copper and lead mines of the future would be the 1m deep and shape of old telephone ducts Future caught up with my thinking fast!

Another form of industrial reuse in the late 70s reused the London hydraulic power ducts, which only closed in 1977. I never realised there had been (800psi !) hydraulic power transmission in London, but it was ideal for the newfangled optical fibres in the city.

Also I'd guess that many of the items which had been taken to rallies a few times and didn't sell were taken to the dump. I imagine the dump operators send off items for gold recovery, although I read a lot of computer waste was sent to West Africa and just dumped in the open. That classed as recycling and allowed boxes to be ticked.

WEEE has to be separated out in recycling bins and at municipal tips. I've presumed it is for material recovery, but I'm not at all surprised stuff is tipped. After all, all other forms of our rubbish are sent to Africa (not China anymore) for, ahem, recycling.

I suppose buying up TE at swapmeets for gold value is just the market in operation, but it seems seedy and sad.

Yes, just like the tube rapists. Doubly so if it is working TE.

[MED6753]

ps for the love of god ........if med buys that 1725 and paints it blue........don't anyone tell me.

mnem

Marco, any hp TE that I restored has been painted gray. Any future hp will be painted same.

Not so with the fugly Fluke beige. That color cried for a paint job.

[EC8010]

Glad to see the BNCs being protected from dirt/corrosion.

[Zenith]

There's also the militarisation of space to consider. Russia has used a presumed kinetic weapon to shatter a satellite and more recently has been making threats to the ICEYE RADAR imaging satellite by moving four COSMOS satellites around close to it. USA with Boeing X-37B and likely other systems that will contribute to "golden dome" or previously "star wars", China and possibly Russia have orbital weapons systems.

Speaking of interfering with GNSS and space warfare I came across this Veritasium video. Regular interference with GPS over Europe has been traced to a Russian satellite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz23G_UXCGA

[tggzzz]

There's also the militarisation of space to consider. Russia has used a presumed kinetic weapon to shatter a satellite and more recently has been making threats to the ICEYE RADAR imaging satellite by moving four COSMOS satellites around close to it. USA with Boeing X-37B and likely other systems that will contribute to "golden dome" or previously "star wars", China and possibly Russia have orbital weapons systems.

Speaking of interfering with GNSS and space warfare I came across this Veritasium video. Regular interference with GPS over Europe has been traced to a Russian satellite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz23G_UXCGA

Here's a frequent type of NOTAM from a couple of years ago. I don't keep up to date on whether they still occur

GNSS SIGNAL JAMMING TRIAL. GND JAMMERS LOCATED WI 3NM RADIUS PSN
520052N 0033832W (DIXIES CORNER, POWYS, WALES). ACTIVITY MAY AFFECT
ACFT WI 62NM (ALL DIRECTIONS) AND 62NM RADIUS OF SITE.
DURING TRIAL GNSS REC MAY SUFFER INTERMITTENT/TOTAL FAILURE, OR GIVE INCORRECT PSN
INFO. CREWS SHOULD BE AWARE OF THESE LIMITATIONS AND USE ALT MEANS
OF NAV.

I suspect that is related to special forces; others have been related to an airfield used for UAV testing

[Robert]

Ebay prices are unrealistic. People think they can get more out of it than the think. It's called gold fever.
I hate to think what chemical contamination and pollution is being caused by DIY refiners. The mercury method is particularly hazardous. Some years ago a guy in the USA killed people in his apartment complex trying to recover mercury from amalgam.
I use a reputable refining company for my PCB recovery. It's not just the gold that is recovered. Tin, copper, tantalum and even lead is worth recovering. Tanatlum is currently about £100 a kilo and Tin £12.

Just so I wondered whether someone has read recent headlines and thinks old memory is worth a lot.

How easy are such companies to find and deal with?

For comparison, saffron is £4000-8000/kg

I've used AWA refiners for years
https://awarefiners.co.uk/
They do charge a collection fee for smaller quantities or you can arrange delivery yourself. Best prices are achieved if you sort the material and remove hardware like brackets, large capacitors, transformers and heatsinks. Sorting PCBS into 3 main groups of high content (Old PCBs with 100% gold plate, backplanes and similar), Medium content (quality computer motherboards, older cell phone PCB's and industrial PCBs without 100% plating or modern ENIG ultrathin gold) and low content (consumer electronics PCBs). If you have a lot of them remove and sort high value ICs (ceramic CPUS and similar particuarly PGA packages with gold plated lids, UVEPROMs, RAM modules with gold plated edge contacts) Weigh and list separately.

Robert.

[Zenith]

Ebay prices are unrealistic. People think they can get more out of it than the think. It's called gold fever.
I hate to think what chemical contamination and pollution is being caused by DIY refiners. The mercury method is particularly hazardous. Some years ago a guy in the USA killed people in his apartment complex trying to recover mercury from amalgam.
I use a reputable refining company for my PCB recovery. It's not just the gold that is recovered. Tin, copper, tantalum and even lead is worth recovering. Tanatlum is currently about £100 a kilo and Tin £12.

Just so I wondered whether someone has read recent headlines and thinks old memory is worth a lot.

People's idea of what's worth a lot is often abstract and out of touch with reality. For instance nice old furniture, which would sell on the S/H antique market for a couple of hundred quid, but the owners talk about it as if it's worth thousands.

Old memory is worth a lot if it works and is tested. There's a ready market for working used memory sticks on ebay. It's easy to store, easy to test and the packing requirements are straightforward. 1 kg of mainly working memory sticks would be a lot of sticks and sell for a fair amount on fleabay, but there'd be trouble to go to. My guess is that as gold recovery it would fetch a small fraction of what could be made by testing and selling it as working sticks.

[MED6753]

On the subject of "tube rapists". They can be real sneaky as indicated by this thread.


viewtopic.php?t=125

[tggzzz]

People's idea of what's worth a lot is often abstract and out of touch with reality. For instance nice old furniture, which would sell on the S/H antique market for a couple of hundred quid, but the owners talk about it as if it's worth thousands.

One problem is that there are many valid valuations for a single object, which can lead to confusion. Ignoring sentimental value and price when something was bought new...

• insurance price, i.e. the cost of replacing something. Often the highest valuation.
• probate price, i.e. the valuation for inheritance tax purposes. Worth paying for a professional probate valuation, since the valuer will assign a plausibly low ball auction price. For our specialist equipment that may well be zero, since won't be to spec, will be too specialist (i.e. not an antique and or chattel sold at a general auction) for them to be able to guess, and not worth them spending lots of time to find a sale price
• actual sale price, which depends on finding the right venue, optionally being patient, and at an auction the price is set by the second highest bidder (if any)

Insurance companies will often lowball their valuation, since a spectrum analyser can't possibly be worth more than a TV, can it.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ ... msg6081889

Lessons? Take photos, keep record of fleabay sale prices, get professional probate valuation.

[Robert]

There is a new valuation - ebay's AI
As metal detectors are "test equipment" according to ebay UK I noticed an ad for a National Geographic Metal Detector at £319. This is a kid's toy (I repaired one earlier in the year. The description was
" National Geographic Metal Detector 2.5m Underground Scanner Gold Finder is a professional metal detector designed for detecting underground treasures. Made by the renowned brand National Geographic, this TX-850 model is equipped with advanced features to accurately locate metal objects. With a detection range of up to 2.5m, this detector is perfect for both beginners and experienced treasure hunters looking to uncover hidden gems. Made in China, this high-quality metal detector is a must-have tool for anyone interested in the thrill of the hunt."

It has a detection range more like 2.5 inches.. I sent he seller a nice message and they confirmed the value and description was from AI. They revised the listing https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/257552470624 but it's still too much. This one is obvious but I'm sure it is happening with TE too. Examples being overpriced multimeters.

[tggzzz]

There is a new valuation - ebay's AI
...

Oh, my joy is unbounded.

Hadn't spotted that aberration.

[EC8010]

I see similar AI-generated nonsense for lathes on Fleabay. I often look up "Hobbymat MD65 lathe" to see what modifications people have made (and whether they might be worth incorporating on mine). I see all sorts of rubbish written in the item description. The Hobbymat is a nice enough lathe, but it is (as its name suggests) a hobby lathe, not a toolroom lathe. But those ludicrous descriptions are useful; they tell you that the seller knows nothing about the item and is selling for profit only, so buyer beware. Sellers who have actually used the item and know what it is will offer a much more useful description about exact condition.

[Zenith]

People selling things they don't have a clue about but are trying to big up for the best price. The AI patter must be a godsend and it's not entirely their fault if it's total nonsense, it's just what the computer said.

"Professional" is a give away word.

I'm sure most people spending serious money (over £20) on a metal detector will have looked into it, and at least know which brands are worth considering.

[tggzzz]

But those ludicrous descriptions are useful; they tell you that the seller knows nothing about the item and is selling for profit only, so buyer beware.

Just so.

Perhaps the seller is somebody disposing of an estate, and might listen to reason; that happened to me once. That doesn't change your assessment, of course.

I'm sure most people spending serious money (over £20) on a metal detector will have looked into it, and at least know which brands are worth considering.

I get more cynical as I watch people, and as I get older - the Victor Meldrew effect.

I came across I neat phrase today, something along the lines of "never underestimate the number of people who can repeat words without understanding them". And that wasn't about LLM output, for once.

[Robert]

People selling things they don't have a clue about but are trying to big up for the best price. The AI patter must be a godsend and it's not entirely their fault if it's total nonsense, it's just what the computer said.

"Professional" is a give away word.

I'm sure most people spending serious money (over £20) on a metal detector will have looked into it, and at least know which brands are worth considering.

I would not be too sure. Search for long range gold detector or long range treasure detector. There are lots of complete con jobs out there and people buy them. At best they are divining rods.

[EC8010]

"Never underestimate the number of people who can repeat words without understanding them."

That phrase would have been invaluable when I was marking students' coursework in the late 90s.

[tggzzz]

"Never underestimate the number of people who can repeat words without understanding them."

That phrase would have been invaluable when I was marking students' coursework in the late 90s.

I suspect that Eric Laithwaite's strategy would have helped there. On principle in the final year exams he set for undergraduates, he would include three questions:

• one question could be answered by everyone that had attended and understood his lectures
• one could be answered by people that had explored beyond his course material
• one couldn't be answered in the time available

and he expected that an engineer could determine which was which and avoid the impossible question. If you couldn't, then you deserved not to get good marks.

I wonder if anyone could get away with that now; "participation medals" seem to have become normalised. But I expect I'm being too grouchy there.

Anyway, I've spotted they are re-running a show that broke many boundaries, established new principles, and is still far better than most of its successors. Babylon 5, of course. Several of the subplots have become horrifyingly prophetic over the past few years, e.g. the NightWatch arc.

See it on Legend at 7pm, repeated tomorrow, episodes at one day intervals.
Then read the relevant "JMS Speaks" http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/eplist.html , his real-time interaction with the fans. You'll learn all the things you missed (especially miscellaneous cultural references), and see how he planted details that wouldn't become important until two seasons later.

[Zenith]

People selling things they don't have a clue about but are trying to big up for the best price. The AI patter must be a godsend and it's not entirely their fault if it's total nonsense, it's just what the computer said.

"Professional" is a give away word.

I'm sure most people spending serious money (over £20) on a metal detector will have looked into it, and at least know which brands are worth considering.

I would not be too sure. Search for long range gold detector or long range treasure detector. There are lots of complete con jobs out there and people buy them. At best they are divining rods.

I suppose that's true for any specialised thing, such as astronomical telescopes, where anything any good, costs £££s painful new, but there's no shortage of offerings designed to appeal to the credulous. Then there's the second hand market, where your money can go a lot further, if you know what you are about, and especially if you can fix something broken.

Fortunately there are internet discussion forums on all sorts of things, where you are likely to get fairly sound advice, including on too good to be true products, and dealing on ebay, a.k.a. Fleabay and Thieves Bay.

[tggzzz]

People's idea of what's worth a lot is often abstract and out of touch with reality. For instance nice old furniture, which would sell on the S/H antique market for a couple of hundred quid, but the owners talk about it as if it's worth thousands.

One problem is that there are many valid valuations for a single object, which can lead to confusion. Ignoring sentimental value and price when something was bought new...

• insurance price, i.e. the cost of replacing something. Often the highest valuation.
• probate price, i.e. the valuation for inheritance tax purposes. Worth paying for a professional probate valuation, since the valuer will assign a plausibly low ball auction price. For our specialist equipment that may well be zero, since won't be to spec, will be too specialist (i.e. not an antique and or chattel sold at a general auction) for them to be able to guess, and not worth them spending lots of time to find a sale price
• actual sale price, which depends on finding the right venue, optionally being patient, and at an auction the price is set by the second highest bidder (if any)

Insurance companies will often lowball their valuation, since a spectrum analyser can't possibly be worth more than a TV, can it.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ ... msg6081889

Lessons? Take photos, keep record of fleabay sale prices, get professional probate valuation.

Just popped into my inbox... confirms values are often over estimated and that a professional valuation is useful.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/i- ... tta5E9el7r