Test Equipment Anonymous

Specmaster wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:19 pm First pic of the new car, yes it's the same colour as the last one, but it's 3 years younger, has more "toys" than the old one, but I'm not sure if it has the TV tuner or not, need to play with it some more to get my head around the various menus on the set-up screens.

I think it is fitted, but it's selected differently to the old system. Chomping on the bit to go and collect it, but it is currently awaiting a new headlight unit to be shipped over from the factory as part of the DRL has stopped working and there are one or two areas that need further attention before it's ready.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:20 pm

Specmaster wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:19 pm First pic of the new car, yes it's the same colour as the last one, but it's 3 years younger, has more "toys" than the old one, but I'm not sure if it has the TV tuner or not, need to play with it some more to get my head around the various menus on the set-up screens.

So, designed by the same software weenies that are let loose on modern low-end scopes.

I think it is fitted, but it's selected differently to the old system. Chomping on the bit to go and collect it, but it is currently awaiting a new headlight unit to be shipped over from the factory as part of the DRL has stopped working and there are one or two areas that need further attention before it's ready.

I see a lot of modern cars with failed parking/side lights. (I refuse to use the term "daylight running light" because two of those three words are incorrect in this context)

Specmaster wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:39 pm

tggzzz wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:20 pm

Specmaster wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:19 pm First pic of the new car, yes it's the same colour as the last one, but it's 3 years younger, has more "toys" than the old one, but I'm not sure if it has the TV tuner or not, need to play with it some more to get my head around the various menus on the set-up screens.

So, designed by the same software weenies that are let loose on modern low-end scopes.

I think it is fitted, but it's selected differently to the old system. Chomping on the bit to go and collect it, but it is currently awaiting a new headlight unit to be shipped over from the factory as part of the DRL has stopped working and there are one or two areas that need further attention before it's ready.

I see a lot of modern cars with failed parking/side lights. (I refuse to use the term "daylight running light" because two of those three words are incorrect in this context)

Yeah, I know, I remember when Volvo started it all off years, I thought the whole concept was nuts but now I understand the contribution they make to safety, you can spot a car with them on, much sooner than you can a car without them. I programmed mine to only come on if the engine was running and the handbrake is off, makes so much more sense to me that they are only ON when the car is being driven.

mnementh wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 10:40 pm That's because the people who use that term don't know that DRL means "Daytime Running Lights"... you're right, the other way is mentally defective.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 11:12 pm

mnementh wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 10:40 pm That's because the people who use that term don't know that DRL means "Daytime Running Lights"... you're right, the other way is mentally defective.

So they are off at night? Or does the name change to NRL?

Specmaster wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 12:09 am

tggzzz wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 11:12 pm

mnementh wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 10:40 pm That's because the people who use that term don't know that DRL means "Daytime Running Lights"... you're right, the other way is mentally defective.

So they are off at night? Or does the name change to NRL?

No, at night, they just become your regular sidelights.

• daytime: off
• daytime poor visibility: dipped headlights
• night in towns: dipped headlights
• night open roads: main beam
• night parked: parking lights

tggzzz wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 7:35 am

Specmaster wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 12:09 am

tggzzz wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 11:12 pm

So they are off at night? Or does the name change to NRL?

No, at night, they just become your regular sidelights.

When I learned to drive, lights were easy:

• daytime: off
• daytime poor visibility: dipped headlights
• night in towns: dipped headlights
• night open roads: main beam
• night parked: parking lights

I last looked when my daughter was learning to drive. The rules were incomprehensible partly due to rules for parking/sidelights. They read like a poor deed of covenant for renting a house (poor because you have to pay lawyers to argue over what it means in practice).

I've just checked the on-line highway code, and it has reverted to more or less as I outlined above. Sanity restored.

OTOH, on motorways in heavy rain I've seen cars driving slowly without rear lights on. When overtaking, their front sidelights are on. It crossed my mind that perhaps they've seen front parking/sidelights lights on and not bothered to check the rear lights. (Yes, they should have been using dipped headlights, but in practice that wasn't vital on a motorway.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 7:35 am The rules were incomprehensible partly due to rules for parking/sidelights. They read like a poor deed of covenant for renting a house (poor because you have to pay lawyers to argue over what it means in practice).

mansaxel wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 6:31 pm

tggzzz wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 7:35 am The rules were incomprehensible partly due to rules for parking/sidelights. They read like a poor deed of covenant for renting a house (poor because you have to pay lawyers to argue over what it means in practice).

Here, the rules are simple (were simple, then industry intervened): Car moving, needs lights. When dark, lights need to be useful for illumination and not only positioning. I run with dipped headlights ALL the time, except when I un-dip them. The science is pretty good on it being a real benefit for safety. Also, the fad of running w/o rear lights: Boo, hiss! Shite lobbyism by industry. Mine are on. Permanently.

Specmaster wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 11:13 pm My car does not switch them off when headlights are on, instead it dims them and they then become front side lamps. No point in having the side and tail lamps on during the day as they so low in brightness that is hard to actually detect they are on, especially the rear lamps. My headlights and also side and rear lamps are switched on automatically when the sensor thinks the light is low enough to warrant them being on. It is so sensitive just driving under a bridge or over hanging tree will cause them to be switched on, even in sunlight, and only switched off when the system is convinced that the light level is not going to fade away anytime soon.

tggzzz wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 6:39 am

Specmaster wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 11:13 pm My car does not switch them off when headlights are on, instead it dims them and they then become front side lamps. No point in having the side and tail lamps on during the day as they so low in brightness that is hard to actually detect they are on, especially the rear lamps. My headlights and also side and rear lamps are switched on automatically when the sensor thinks the light is low enough to warrant them being on. It is so sensitive just driving under a bridge or over hanging tree will cause them to be switched on, even in sunlight, and only switched off when the system is convinced that the light level is not going to fade away anytime soon.

What happens to the rear lights?

If they are automatically turned on/off then a following driver would think they car was breaking (and had the central brake light failed).

Robert wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 9:48 am This running with rear lights on in daylight increases the reaction time of following briveres to a braking event. This is off-set somewhat by high level brake lights and the fast response of LED brake lights but it is still better to have them off in daylight.

Robert wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 9:48 am DRL's are front only without rear during the day for good physiological reasons.
In daylight conditions the PERCEIVED difference in brightness between rear lights and brake lights is much lower than at night. This running with rear lights on in daylight increases the reaction time of following briveres to a braking event. This is off-set somewhat by high level brake lights and the fast response of LED brake lights but it is still better to have them off in daylight.

The thing that annoys me is the "knight rider" indicators that were started by VAG. These are not allowed by UK regulations but as they were type approved in europe we accept them.

Robert.

mnementh wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 1:21 pm

Robert wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 9:48 am DRL's are front only without rear during the day for good physiological reasons.
In daylight conditions the PERCEIVED difference in brightness between rear lights and brake lights is much lower than at night. This running with rear lights on in daylight increases the reaction time of following briveres to a braking event. This is off-set somewhat by high level brake lights and the fast response of LED brake lights but it is still better to have them off in daylight.

The thing that annoys me is the "knight rider" indicators that were started by VAG. These are not allowed by UK regulations but as they were type approved in europe we accept them.

Robert.

Simply not true. One of the first implementations of DRL in the US was at Chrysler when I was working as a dealership tech, which (we were told) used the Euro standard for operation. The DRLs on vehicles so equipped used the front turn-signal filament for the DRL; all the lights were controlled by the ECM, so it was dead-simple to implement, and such features could easily be turned on/off with the DRB II.

Daytime: Parking lights back/side on any time engine running. Front turn-signal filaments on solid; switched over to blinking when turn signals engaged.

Daytime/wipers on: As with daytime above, only low beams also turned on.

Night-time/any time headlights turned on: Parking lights back/front/side on as usual, headlight operation as usual.

The turn-signal lights themselves were redesigned to handle the additional heat build-up of being lit all the time, and standard equipment was 3157 extended life/rough service bulbs which had filaments supported by several guy wires along their length. Bulb longevity was not an issue, and these vehicles were being sold with the 10/100 warranty that nearly bankrupted Chrysler on the older gen K-cars.

DRL were being marketed as a benefit at the time, because it saved you money on your liability insurance. Only when a customer asked that they be turned off was this changed. It was part of our "dealership prep" of a new car (along with peeling the plastic off hood/fenders and installing hubcaps/floormats, etc) was to ensure DRL was enabled and set to the correct DRL mode.

The "perceived brightness" issue was never a problem in reality; the taillights are barely visible in the day and very much necessary when passing through dark areas like alleys, under bridges, and tunnels.

mnem